Pennock's Fiero Forum
  Technical Discussion & Questions - Archive
  exhaust gas temperature?

T H I S   I S   A N   A R C H I V E D   T O P I C
  

Email This Page to Someone! | Printable Version


exhaust gas temperature? by DaRkLoRD
Started on: 06-08-2002 09:23 PM
Replies: 8
Last post by: Blazerguy on 06-10-2002 07:05 PM
DaRkLoRD
Member
Posts: 7001
From: Canada
Registered: Feb 99


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 83
Rate this member

Report this Post06-08-2002 09:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DaRkLoRDSend a Private Message to DaRkLoRDDirect Link to This Post
what's the typical range for the temperature of the exhaust gases? how much hotter does it get if the engine is running lean?

thanks!

------------------
steve@digitalfusion.on.ca
http://www.fieroproject.com

IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
jstricker
Member
Posts: 12956
From: Russell, KS USA
Registered: Apr 2002


Feedback score:    (11)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 370
Rate this member

Report this Post06-08-2002 10:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jstrickerSend a Private Message to jstrickerDirect Link to This Post
A couple of questions before an answer. First, where are you measuring the temps at? The further downstream from the valves you are, the cooler the temps will be. Second, at what state do you want to measure it? When you accelerate, you go rich and the temps will fall, then begin to rise. When you decelerate you go lean and the fall, and fall quickly.

In airplanes, we have adjustable mixture. Most complex aircraft have EGT's, many one probe per cylinder. When you reach cruise altitude, you lean the engine. It's generally accepted that the peak EGT is the most efficient point at which to operate. That's not always true though as some engine are designed to run 50 to 100 degrees LEAN of peak. Typically, though, the engines are run at 50 to 100 degrees rich of peak to allow for variations between cylinders, unless the aircraft is equipped with a multi probe EGT where the lean cylinder can be identified.

Now, back to your question, what's a normal range? In aircraft, most have maximum limits of something around 1600°F. The engines that have a maximum limitation like that are typically turbocharged and that limit is the TIT, or Turbine Inlet Temperature, and is well downstream of the exhaust valves.

In watching EGT's over the years, it's not uncommon to see 1200° on a single probe unit and many aircraft owners get pretty nervous if the temps get over about 1300°. Don't forget though that the vast majority of these engines are air cooled and fairly intolerant of high temperatures, particular in the Cylinder head area. For that temperature, anything over 400°F at the temperature probe location is considered pretty darn hot, and the cure to that is to richen the mixture and cool it down.

You can expect a modern auto engine to run very high EGT's because of the computer mixture controls keeping the engine very close to it's proper mixture. An EGT can be a really useful tool in the dyno room, but of limited usefulness on the car. I do have one on my diesel service truck and it typically runs aroun 800° but on acceleration can get to 1100°. That's naturally aspirated and with a tweaked pump and intake system.

John Stricker

 
quote
Originally posted by DaRkLoRD:
what's the typical range for the temperature of the exhaust gases? how much hotter does it get if the engine is running lean?

thanks!

IP: Logged
DaRkLoRD
Member
Posts: 7001
From: Canada
Registered: Feb 99


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 83
Rate this member

Report this Post06-08-2002 10:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DaRkLoRDSend a Private Message to DaRkLoRDDirect Link to This Post
measured between the manifolds and the cat, while cruising at a steady RPM..

what kinds of temperatures might I expect to find?

------------------
steve@digitalfusion.on.ca
http://www.fieroproject.com

IP: Logged
jstricker
Member
Posts: 12956
From: Russell, KS USA
Registered: Apr 2002


Feedback score:    (11)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 370
Rate this member

Report this Post06-08-2002 11:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jstrickerSend a Private Message to jstrickerDirect Link to This Post
That's still a little hard to tell, there's quite a span there in length. As a WAG, I'd say at cruising speed, if the computer is working properly, etc., etc., you would probably see something like a peak of around 1350°. Just a little change in mixture makes a BIG difference. A little rich and you'll drop 250° almost instantly. Pyrometers aren't that expensive (if they're not certified for aircraft). If you're really curious, just weld a boss in there and screw one in.

Now I'm curious, why do you want to know?? 8-) BTW, the exhaust coming out of the cat is actually hotter than what went in.

John Stricker

 
quote
Originally posted by DaRkLoRD:
measured between the manifolds and the cat, while cruising at a steady RPM..

what kinds of temperatures might I expect to find?

IP: Logged
Cooter
Member
Posts: 6328
From: Alabama, USA
Registered: Jun 99


Feedback score:    (11)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 138
Rate this member

Report this Post06-08-2002 11:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CooterSend a Private Message to CooterDirect Link to This Post
I had some concerns about my car's EGT after I installed the gauge because I had no idea how hot it should be. "Normal" on my car is around 1100-1200 degrees. It has gone as high as 1400 while pulling a pretty steep hill at about 1/2 throttle. Oh, the temp probe is in the rear manifold here:
IP: Logged
jstricker
Member
Posts: 12956
From: Russell, KS USA
Registered: Apr 2002


Feedback score:    (11)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 370
Rate this member

Report this Post06-08-2002 11:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jstrickerSend a Private Message to jstrickerDirect Link to This Post
Damn, I'm a better guesser than I thought I was. 8-) It wouldn't have surprised me to be a lot more off than that. Your probe is pretty close to that back valve so your temps are going to read warm. I'd say you're probably about normal for computer control. If you ever have an ignition problem or injector problem on that bank, it will show up instantly on your pyrometer.

John Stricker[QUOTE]Originally posted by Cooter:
[B]I had some concerns about my car's EGT after I installed the gauge because I had no idea how hot it should be. "Normal" on my car is around 1100-1200 degrees. It has gone as high as 1400 while pulling a pretty steep hill at about 1/2 throttle. Oh, the temp probe is in the rear manifold here:

IP: Logged
Poncho Jim
Member
Posts: 869
From: Woodlands, MB, Canada
Registered: Mar 2000


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post06-09-2002 12:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Poncho JimClick Here to visit Poncho Jim's HomePageSend a Private Message to Poncho JimDirect Link to This Post
I know the oxygen sensor won't even start working until it hits 600 degrees.. So I guess over a thousand isn't out of line near the head..
IP: Logged
87FieroJim
Junior Member
Posts: 6
From: Longwood, Fla
Registered: Apr 2002


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post06-09-2002 01:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 87FieroJimSend a Private Message to 87FieroJimDirect Link to This Post
I don't know if it applies to these engines or not, but, when I installed a set of EGTs on my two stroke motorcycle racing engine the optimum distance from the cylinder wall opening of the exhaust port to the probe was 12" +/- .25". I was also told the best temp range for highest safe performance would be between 1000F and 1400F with the understanding that anything above 1400F would likely burn a hole in the pistons or cause a piston siezure ( which I found to be absolutely TRUE ).

Just my $0.02 worth of knowledge and ezperience.

------------------
Jim in Fla
Red 87 cpe 2.5L4/5spd
Dreamin' of a W-41 transplant.

IP: Logged
Blazerguy
Member
Posts: 75
From: Lenexa, KS
Registered: Nov 2001


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post06-10-2002 07:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlazerguySend a Private Message to BlazerguyDirect Link to This Post
EGT's can be a very useful tool for tuning purposes, but the readings CAN fool you! Excessively high EGT's can be one of three things:
1. Lean air/fuel ratio.
2. Severely retarded timing allowing fuel to burn in the exhaust.
3. SEVERELY (I mean under 11.5:1) air/fuel ratio where fuel still exists outside the combustion chamber giving you sort of an "afterburner" effect.

On a centrifugal supercharged 408" Ford making 1,900 hp (race gas) normal WOT EGT's can be in the 1500-1700 range at the exhaust ports on the head. Turbocharged versions of this engine can be in the 1800-2000 degree range.
Our 98 Chevy 454 EFI dually consistently ran EGT's in the 1600-1700 range from the factory while towing. Added a ProCharger system, temps went up roughly 100 degrees except at full throttle where they were about the same. Add headers, high flow cat, good exhaust, & slightly tweak the ECM & the temps dropped 250-300 degrees across the board.

Bottom line, make sure your vehicle is relatively close to tune. Then, you can start to get an idea of what your EGT's should be. Then, you can see the effects of changes and measure your success. Remember though, increased exhaust flow can drop EGTs but the added airflow can also lean out the engine at WOT. This could leave you with the same reading (or higher) than you had before.

Have I confused you enough yet? Just got done donating blood, I will reread this later to see if it confuses me as well, and reserve the right to correct myself.

------------------
I shall be kicking myself for selling my 87 GT until I replace it.

IP: Logged



All times are ET (US)

T H I S   I S   A N   A R C H I V E D   T O P I C
  

Contact Us | Back To Main Page

Advertizing on PFF | Fiero Parts Vendors
PFF Merchandise | Fiero Gallery
Real-Time Chat | Fiero Related Auctions on eBay



Copyright (c) 1999, C. Pennock