I don't even know where to start with this topic but here it goes. I have a 4 speed auto tranny (the stock model) I hear many people grip about having the auto. Understand, manual gives you alot more play with the RPM's which gives more power at the fingertips....I think. But the Fiero that pulls the 10.3 1/4's (some know which I'm talking about) is an auto tranny. So, is it fesable to adjust your auto tranny? Just changing the shift points, possible the gearing all together and are you going to be spending an arm and a leg to do this? And what about manual's.....Which is better?

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The TH125 is actually a 3 speed auto. I loved the TH440(4 speed auto) that is in my Cutlass, it was quick off the line even for the weight of the car. It might be a good swap(TH125 -> TH440(4T60)) to think about if you want an auto.

I've driven in both auto and 4 speed manual Fiero's. I find the 4 speed manual feels like it has more pull than the auto, but both driven properly are pretty evenly matched. IMHO.

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1986 Fiero SE
2.8/4 speed

You know, you may be right. It might be a three speed. I was only assuming it to be a 4.

If you don't see an overdrive symbol on the console, it's a 3-speed. If it's a stock Fiero, it's a 3-speed no matter what. It's been discussed why some may feel like it has an overdrive.. I have an auto as well. I was 15 when I bought it, and didn't want to learn a stick on that kind of car. I like 5-speeds; I think they're awesome to drive, but I think the Fiero's 3-speed auto is one of the best autos I've driven. I have the same tranny in my Grand Prix, but the Fiero's feels much better; harder shifts and whatnot. (no shift kit either) Travis (1FST2M6) runs an auto with nitrous, and he gets high 12s/low 13s. Not to misquote him, but he said that it's much easier running nitrous on an automatic. (or something like that) No worries about burnt clutches. If my 3-speed ever went out, I'd get a 4-speed auto.

quote Originally posted by Morphine: .....Which is better?

Ha ha. That's a religious issue. People will argue all day long and throw out their favorite "facts" and nobody will ever change anybody's minds. Basically it boils down to personal preference.

With that said, though, I've heard that the automatic can be beefed up to be stronger than the manual transmissions. If you're planning on building a high HP drag car then an automatic may be the way to go.

You may, however, want to do some real racing that requires more than just planting your right foot and keeping the car pointed straight. If you have to go around actual corners and downshift, too, you'll want to have a manual.

If you're just going to drive to work and back, then take your pick. Both should last just about forever. If you know how to drive a manual and don't abuse it you should be able to get 100k miles out of a clutch.

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Doug Chase
Duvall, WA
'88 Fiero Formula 5-spd (autocrosser)
'88 Fiero GT 5-spd (daily driver)
'85 Fiero GT 4-spd (rally car)
'86 Fiero GT 5-spd (organ doner for rally car)
'86 Fiero GT 4-spd (fixer-upper, 4 sale soon)

[edited for speling erors]

[This message has been edited by Doug Chase (edited 05-15-2002).]

my take is this. stick is lots more sporty, lots more engine and driving control, my choice for lots of out of city driving. In town traffic, rush hour, construction , an auto is the only way to go. Wish I had tiptronic now thats perfect, but then a $30k transmission is a little extreme.

In my opinion, for cars that I purchase, own and drive, a manual transmission = driving an automobile.

Automatic transmission = steering a bumper car.

This is, of course, only my personal opinion for my own personal use, and it has no reflection on what you or anyone else prefer for your own driving pleasure. To each their own - live and let live.

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Patrick W. Heinske -- LZeitgeist@aol.com
1988 Red Fiero Formula
- 1st Place - Stock Coupe - FOCOSEVA 2000
- 3rd Place - Stock Formula - FOCOA Nat'l 2001
- Class Winner - 1982 to Present - Tarheel Tigers All-Pontiac Show 2001

tiptronic isn't that much b/c a Ferrari F350 trans is $22K at last check

and tiptronic trans comes on a Chrysler Intrepid

I have a 87 GT that is Automatic and like it. However..... I use to have a 1986 SE w/V6 that was a 4 speed and I loved that!

So what would I perfer??????
Manual transmission without a doubt (because I like shifting)! I will say though..... my current Automatic 87 GT even with it's 114,000 miles (compared to the 24,000 mile manual V6 SE that I had) the Automatic GT seems to have more power. Do the GT's have something the SE's didn't????? My brother even said (when I took him for a spin) that GT has more $#!t then my old SE did!

Also what is that thing you feel in the automatic fiero's that feels like a 4th shift. Cruising along (while counting the shifts) I hear it shift a 4th time. What is it???

[This message has been edited by camon (edited 05-15-2002).]

tiptronic is entirely different than what is on the Ferrari F355F1. the 355 actually has a clutch and flywheel just like a regular manual car but instead of the person pressing the clutch pedal the computer does it in about 1/100 of a second when you tap the shifter. a tiptronic is merely an automatic tranny that you can tell where to shift rather than the ECU.

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Eric
'87 GT 5-speed Gold/Tan
75,000 as of 5/6/02

Work in progess-getting ready for 3.4 TDC swap. items left to get: 1.Held Sport Front suspension 2.Held rear coilover kit 3. 10.25" brake swap

quote Originally posted by camon: ...Also what is that thing you feel in the automatic fiero's that feels like a 4th shift. Cruising along (while counting the shifts) I hear it shift a 4th time. What is it???

That is just the lock up torque converter.. going to a 1:1 ratio. Overdrive trannys are a higher ratio more RPMS at backend of tranny than motor RPM's ( Hence the name overdrive ) On my 700R4 I can actually count 5 speed changes in the engine when I shift up threw the gears manually. [ 1,2,3,lockup, then overdrive ] They call them 4 speed autos even though they could be called 5 speeds. go figure?

manual~~~~~~made for real driving

Auto~~~~~~~made for dates!!

In Madison, WI: 5 speed Manual.

In Washington, DC: Automatic.

I love driving the stick, but when you're in a 2+ hour traffic jam, your left leg just hurts!

"Hey Rick, what's that smell?"
*smells clutch burning*
"Do me a favor, don't tell my room mate about that smell, it's his car."

I would have to agree with the above. Stick shift is fun. My first SE had the 4-spd and the one I have now is an auto. For "spirited driving" the manual's are great. For bumper to bumper traffic auto's are better. The big question is, What are you going to use the car for? To and from work with lots of traffic = auto. Pleasure vehicle and some race course driving = manual. I have not driven a Fiero with the 4-spd auto trans in it but I have heard it is a lot better. More low end grunt and better highway gas mileage due to lower RPM's.

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Happiness isn't around the corner...
Happiness IS the corner.

Ok, I'm going to stick with my auto transmission becuase the car will be my daily driver that I take out and kick some ass with every now and then. Having that said it's not that big of a deal to me to be able to manipulate the gears that much on a high speed coarse. But, I wouldn't mind upgrading my auto tranny to a more powerful one. Unfortunatly, I don't have any avenues to persue this kind of research. I've heard of Tiptronics and that's about it. If anyone has any other information it would help. Diagnostics, Diagnostics, Diagnostics. I want to learn what all the numbers mean!!!

Unless the ratio's are that much different standards usually get better mileage than auto's-more efficient. I would only have to think they are cheaper to maintain, more reliable and you can't push start and auto if you have to! (I can actually push start my car on level ground by myself)
The 4 speed I have seemed quicker than my buddies auto. Of course that could be alot of things.
I prefer stick hands down.

My choice is AUTOMATIC. No human can shift as fast as an automatic can. In the 1/4 mile this makes all the diffeence in the world. I use the 3.33 FD Ratio TH-125H with heavy mods- high stall speed converter,wider bands, additional clutch discs, shift kit and higher line pressures. The shifts are hard, positve and crisp. I am convinced that this tranny can hold 350-400 HP. It has held everything that my turbo 3.4L engine has given it so far.

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87GT 3.4 Turbo Best 0-60 5.2 seconds
http://turbofiero.fierojoe.com/turbo.htm

quote No human can shift as fast as an automatic can. [/B]

Yes, but any primate can hold down a gas pedal.

Just depends on whether or not one wants to drive, or if one wants to just steer.

quote Originally posted by LZeitgeist: Yes, but any primate can hold down a gas pedal. Just depends on whether or not one wants to [b]drive, or if one wants to just steer. [/B]

Hey!! I think if you think that that's all racing is about then I think you don't know much about racing. There is so much technich involved with steering alone that it makes shifting gears seem like extremely small part. Don't get me wrong...I think it's a nice extra to be able to manipulate your gearing on the race track but other than that the love of shifting is merely an exertion of male testosterone!! That doesn't do you any good in the 1/4!!

Well i don't know much about the manual tranny, but what i do know is that i don't have to pay hundreds and hundreds, every time my clutch goes. (Like my friend did)

I have a 2700 stall speed torque convertor in my 86 GT, but i think it's more like 3000 when i launch my car i don't have to worry about under/over revving my car. I don't have to worry about missing shifts in races (seen what can happen when you miss shifts or put in from 5th - 2nd instead of 4th) hoods don't like to stay on cars when you do that.

Also, with my nitrous kit, i can hit the nitrous right off the line since my car is allready @ 3000 unlike a manual.

That's just my advice
Olliver

Easy solution. Buy one of each. Auto for everyday driving, stick for fun. Actually both are fun to drive.

I've driven both an auto and a manual. My old 82 olds Omega was an auto, and my Fiero is a 4spd. I can say that I love shifting. It can be fun when you're cruising and enjoying yourself DRIVING a car. But, it is true, in rush hour traffic, an auto might be helpful.

When I drove an auto recently, it just didn't feel right for me. Felt like I didn't have "complete" control of the car. It just all boils down to personal preference.

But it can present a problem if you want to let your girlfriend drive the car and she doesn't know how to shift. But if you wanted NO one to drive your car and if some of your friends you dont trust with your car and they don't know how to shift, that helps

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AIM: CanadianFiero
Project conversion to an aero V6. (85 GT)

I gotta agree that it entirely depends on the situation.

Fun Sunday drive in the mountains = manual

Non-fun sitting in crappy weeday traffic = auto

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RR
88 GT Lumbar 5.5K
88 GT Auto 40K
87 GT Blue 17K
87 GT Black 55K
86 GT 5-Speed 42K
85 GT Auto 63K

quote Originally posted by RRobinson: I gotta agree that it entirely depends on the situation. Fun Sunday drive in the mountains = manual Non-fun sitting in crappy weeday traffic = auto

Fun Sunday drive in the mountains = manual

Non-fun sitting in crappy weeday traffic = manual

Shifting your own gears makes any driving fun.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, ok. I'm greatly begginning to understand the need for the manual transmission. But, being that I don't know anything about this stuff I'm needing a little help here. I would tend to think that they would make a tighter manual transmission. One that was easier, faster, and didn't take some much DAMN movement as the stock ones....to be honest, I have a secret to tell. I've only driven a stick twice!! Once in a Suzuki Vitara (I learned how to drive the stick on the way to pick up my prom date,lol) and when my Mustang broke down I had to borrow my girlfriends Escort station wagon that was a stick. Don't ask me why they put a stick in this car. They're pretty easy to drive but I would definatly want to go out and get some refined ability before putting an expensive manual tranny in my Fiero. Which leads to another question. If you plan on swapping the motor with one that is going to need either an adaptor or a tranny swap or possibly both is it feasable to change to a manual? I would tend to think so. So, just for info's sake, how easy is it to change from manual to auto with the least amount of adjustments? Ok, enough said....I'm starting to write a book called "Morphin's many questions about Fiero's" - j/k

How 'bout shift the automatic manually?!

Nah, I did that with my mustang which you can really manipulate and get the car to drive alot harder but within a month my transmission was shot. Or atleast everything loosened up and I had to get it retightened. Or something like that. I had no knowledge of anything back then.

Aww Yeah )

If you don't live where you can drive a stick comfortably... MOVE! <grin>

I drive mine into metro San Francisco all the time. Wouldn't want to do it *every* day, but it's actually fun every other week or so (many clients down there.) I don't even rool all the way into the bay either!

Best!
Ben.

quote Originally posted by Will: Fun Sunday drive in the mountains = manual Non-fun sitting in crappy weeday traffic = manual Shifting your own gears makes any driving fun.

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Ben Cannon
88 Formula, T-top, Metalic Red. (2:13.138 at Sears Point) "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives"
88 Formula, Northstar, Silver, In-Progreess. -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"

...to add my opinion...as long as it's a Fiero, it's always fun to drive (I could go either way).

Tim

There is no "better."

In my case, I have a t-125. But it won't shift on it's own due to some... er... modifications

So, it's now a clutch-less standard!

Autos are more forgiving in pretty much any situation (barring N-drops), and require minimal maintenance to keep them in proper shape.