i WAS JUST READING GRINTHOCKS POST ABOUT TIMING AND HE SHOWS A PICTURE OF THE TIMING COVER AND TIMING MARKS. aNOTHER PERSON POSTED SAYING THAT THE TIMING MARKS SHOULD BE AT THE 1 O'CLOCK POSITION IN RELATIONSHIP TO THE ENGINE AND NOT AT THE 11 O'CLOCK POSITION IN RELATION TO THE ENGINE. wHICH IS IT CAUSE i AM LOST. i TIME MY CAR BY SHINING THE TIMING LIGHT JUST FORWARD OF THE DOG BONE LOOKING DOWN AND NOW SOMEONE SAYS THAT THE TIMING MARKS SHOULD BE UP BY THE BATTERY. HELP

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I think you are mixing 2 posts. Spray some brake or carb cleaner on the timing indicator on the timing cover to clean it off. 10 degrees is as far to the left as the scale goes...most of us set it slightly above that to give us 12 degrees of timing.

Phil

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GTDude
25 years GM experience

on my car, if I am standing on the passenger side of the car looking down on my engine the timing gauge is just below and just forward of the dog bone on the timing cover. 10 degrees being to the left of that. I read in the other post that in order to see that gauge(timing) you have to look to the front side of the engine across from the battery tray or the one o'clock position in relationship to the engine. I am still lost here

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Nope......I just set mine today....from where you are standing.....you should look to the left of the waterpump......just like you said. You should be able to look down and see the timing indicator.....10 degrees all the way to the left of the scale. Now that we know you are looking in the right place...what is your problem?

Phil

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GTDude
25 years GM experience

Well he's right & he's wrong... Its 11 o'clock facing the engine from the passenger side and 1 o'clock looking at the engine (although you can't see the timing marks) from the driver's side. This is a V6 right?

85GTORONTO stated: As I said before if I am not mistaken the timing tab on the Fiero 2.8 should be on the front side of the motor at around "1 oclock"
unless that picture is taken on a funny angle or rotated 90 degree's the tab is on the wrong side.(looks like 10-11 oclock) I know this for 2 reasons 1) my motor has the wrong front cover from a non-Fiero 2.8 on it(I found this out the hard way) and 2) I just helped Adrift with the timing on his 2.8 and the mark is below the battery on the front of the motor.
I'd make sure its an origional timing cover cause that will mess you up for sure.

All I am trying to do is figure out what the hell he is talking about? I am lost with what he is saying.

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Nope.....the timing mark is at the 11 oclock position.......unless you're on your belly leaning over the whole engine......then it would be at the 1 oclock position......LOL. I think he just wasn't thinking when he said 1 oclock.

Phil

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GTDude
25 years GM experience

wouldn't the "timing MARK" be on the dampner and the timing gauge be at the 11 o clock?lol

Just to add "yet another timing tab" picture to the archives....

(edit: Oh yeah, this is on an '88 engine which MIGHT look a bit different - but not much)

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87/88 V6 5spd Notchback Hybrid

[This message has been edited by watts (edited 03-01-2002).]

Well let me add to the confusion here.....

My 85 GT has a NON Fiero front cover. The timing tabs as I said before are in the location shown in the last photo posted(~10/11 oclock). The BALANCER on my car IS from a Fiero and I can tell you they are not the same as a "regular" 2.8 balancer because the marks are WAY off. (I put a carburated 2.8 short block in my car and the balancer from it has 4 marks, the Fiero's only has 3 or visa versa-I don't recall) I DO have the CORRECT Fiero cover for my 85GT in the garage and if it were on my car the timing marks would be in the correct location for my balancer. Those timing marks are at the one o'clock position!! Yes the easiest way to see them is to look straight down and slightly to the front of the motor, basically beside the battery. If you've figured out by now that I cannot time my car correctly(easily) due to this mix of parts not only are you following what I am saying but you are dead right!!! And you're likely also starting to see why I am pretty sure of myself on this.
I did the timing on Adrifts car last weekend and we decided that if the battery was NOT in its stock location it would be much easier to see the timing marks because his timing tab is ALSO at aprox 1 oclock! If you're looking at timing marks below the dog bone I cannot see how we would have thought removing the battery would help to see them. Vinman72 was also present when we did this and I am sure he can verify.
A funny thing I have noticed, and I'm starting to wonder if even on Fiero's the timing marks have moved during the years, is I have seen several Fiero's now with the oil pressure sender mounted on top of the timing cover(?) right beside the thermostat housing pointing straight up. This was not a mod as the harness was unmolested in this area. My oil pressure sender is right beside the oil filteron the front of the motorbelow the exhaust manifold in my GT and is also this way on several other GT's I have seen.
Is it possible that different years have different timing covers(timing tab locations) AND also different oil press. sender locations???

Sorry if I have confused anyone, I'm just stating what I have seen the 3 times I've had the motor out of my GT and the others I have worked on. I notice differences from mine right away obviously.

I'm adding one more thing here I just thought about......

Does the AC compressor mount on the front of the motor way down low??? Could this also be a reason for different timing locations??? I have no idea if that would affect access to this area or not as I've never worked on a GT with ac, just another thought.

[This message has been edited by 85GToronto (edited 03-01-2002).]

Every one I,ve ever seen is just like Watts posted photo.

This should clear it up... The Fiero's mark is at 11 o'clock facing engine from passenger side; non-Fiero 2.8 is at 1 o'clock. That is why the two harmonic balancers have diff part numbers (because they are marked differently). No Fiero was ever (factory) produced with the non-Fiero timing cover. Hope this helps.

I don't agree at all with that. What are you basing that statement on???
When I got my GT it had a blown motor which I did not reuse but kept, that was the origional Fiero motor and cover that I spoke of.
Adrift's car has a Fiero 2.8 in it-same marks as I've described at 1 oclock

Why would they use pics of a "non" Fiero 2.8 in a Haynes manual about rebuilding a Fiero!?

I'm not sold yet.....

Surely others have the Haynes or other Fiero manuals out there, look for pics.

Where is everyones oil pressure sender?

Look onder the hood at the option codes on the fender. If you don't have an L44 then I will believe your timing mark is at 1 o'clock. That tells me that some cars destined for Canada got a different engine than the L44 but I've never heard or read that.

I have the GM manual for '87 and it only shows the 1 cover. I also have a P22 and it shows the 2 covers for the L44 85-86 & 87-88, but both have the timing marks in the 11 o'clock position. I have had both engines and both of my marks were on the 11 o'clock position.

The following picture is a GM 2.8L in a 1986 Jeep.

The timing tab is on the right-hand side, and reads up to 20 degrees of advance.

Hope this helps... (?)

quote Originally posted by 85GToronto: A funny thing I have noticed, and I'm starting to wonder if even on Fiero's the timing marks have moved during the years, is I have seen several Fiero's now with the oil pressure sender mounted on top of the timing cover(?) right beside the thermostat housing pointing straight up.

Easy one...

Cars with A/C had to move the oil pressure sensor up to where you saw it (pointing up) to clear the pump. Everyone else (me) got it right by the filter as usual.

Thanks watts that explains the AC relation to the whole thing about oil pressure senders.

It still doesn't explain however why my 85GT has the marks where the picture of the Jeep 2.8 in the pic shows. Adrifts car which also has AC has the marks at 1 oclock as well. Incidently I keep forgetting a Commanche I recently picked up dirt cheap and is sitting in my driveway has the 1 oclocks too.

I'll check for the code on my car today but I would doubt they'd put different timing marks on a car simply because it was going to be sold in Canada, I mean I guess its possible but that sounds retarded.

No one has commented on the pics in the Haynes manuals either, surely someone else has this book??

Who else has any ideas??

quote Originally posted by 85GToronto: No one has commented on the pics in the Haynes manuals either, surely someone else has this book??

Grrrr... haynes....

They have a real nasty tendancy to use GENERIC off the shelf pictures. "Oh, we took a picture of 'x' part a few years ago, why waste film, pull it from the archives". Who cares if the part changed 20 times since then. Recycled wiring diagrams are another one they're famous for.

I'll use 'em for general (very!) information, but anything detailed or critical (say, torque values??) I'll stick to reputable sources (read: factory manuals ONLY).

They've messed me up too many times in the past with errors. No more.