I just saw an engine on ebay going for $620US with 7k miles on it, and well it got me thinking. Anybody here know what is involved with doing this swap? Time, cost and difficulty, I would be very gratefull. Thanks

Raf.

PS anybody know the milage, our cars have such small tanks I really don't ean to fill up all the time. Thanks again!

I've been doing research on all the swaps trying to make my decision. I've found that the Northstar is as easy as most others to get IN the car. Modification to cradle for mounts and cutting the decklid hinge. If you puchase an aftermarket stand alone EM system ($12-1500?)the swap is supposed to be very straighforward. With the stand alone system I believe you can go with either a manual or auto without problems. If you go with the whole Caddy drivetrain(engine + trans) you will have to get axles made or build them yourself(different splines and lengths) but you will be able to use the Caddy ECM with fewer problems. You will have to fabricate an exaust etc. That's a good price on that motor, it'd be worth a bid.

Banzai !!!!!!!!

Do a search for Jay here in the forum-he sold his n* recently but he did the swap himself and would know all the ins and outs, he's in the Toronto area too. He's also got a thread going called "what I've been up to lately" or something like that about his next project.....the Ferrari!
He'd be happy to give you some advice I am sure......

Try these threads:
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20020208-2-012465.html
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/017228.html

Mileage? I don't know directly, but we have a 280Z with 4.3L L99 with gearing similar to the Fiero's. It gets about 25 mpg on the highway.

http://www.chrfab.com/ They sell the ECM and complete wiring harness that will solve all your problems! (some tuning with a laptop is *required*, it's fun. If that sounds like fun, then this swap is for you

Most people move the engine 2" to the left, but Will proved that this is NOT nessicary (if you are willing to cut into the shock tower a bit, it's either that or a frame rail, pick your poision! l

Uh, if you have a welder, full set of tools both air-and electric and hand, good backyard fabrication skills, an eye for detail, etc. then yeah, doing a Northstar will be pretty easy!

The engine itself does bolt right up, and you can get an 88 V6 flywheel re-drilled to teh N*'s fw bolt circle and use that just fine!

If any of this really scares you however, I'd probally go for a hot cammed SBC instead. The Northstar is deffinately next generation's engine technology. Plus, it looks sweet.

Imagine the car GM could have built....

Best!
Ben.

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Ben Cannon
88 Formula, T-top, Metalic Red. "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives"
88 Formula, Northstar, Silver, In-Progreess. -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"

quote Originally posted by artherd: Most people move the engine 2" to the left, but Will proved that this is NOT nessicary (if you are willing to cut into the shock tower a bit, it's either that or a frame rail, pick your poision! l

The strut tower itself does NOT need to be cut.
What does need to be removed is the chassis side of the dogbone bracket. Part of this is a second layer of metal on top of the strut tower.
Once the dogbone bracket is removed, the engine goes in place in the stock Fiero position with about 1/4" between the right cam cover and the strut tower.

I don't doubt that it would a fun conversion or that it would take hard work an attention to detail. The problem I have is money and time, money more so then time. If I could get an engine cheap get everything to put it in my car for less the 5k then we are talking, however I don't think it is possible with any conversion. So I am bit discourage about converting my engine. Even though I would probably have so much doing it!

With a $2000 engine and a $700 car, my conversion came to about $4000.

I payed for almost none of the work involved, though. I did most of it myself. What I did have to farm out (welding, some of the machine work) I got between cheap and free because I'm tight with guys who can do it.

In the end it's just a matter of determination.

I stand corrected Will! (he's done it withought a 2" move, I chose to move the engine, so he's *the* expert on the stock-location swap!) Will, as far as I know, you're the first to do this

We all want to see pics of how you shoehorned it in

Best!
Ben

quote Originally posted by Will: The strut tower itself does NOT need to be cut. What does need to be removed is the chassis side of the dogbone bracket. Part of this is a second layer of metal on top of the strut tower. Once the dogbone bracket is removed, the engine goes in place in the stock Fiero position with about 1/4" between the right cam cover and the strut tower.

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Ben Cannon
88 Formula, T-top, Metalic Red. "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives"
88 Formula, Northstar, Silver, In-Progreess. -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"

Well, I'm in it for quite a bit more than Will. I'd say that engine/drivetrain alone I've got about 12k. That includes the cams not installed, the spare engine, and the spare tranny with the Gleason.Paid $1800 for the engine. Custom built headers. etc. I just dropped another 1k on the rear suspension beefing everything up with tubular a -arms, antibumpsteer, large GM bearings and axles and CV joints, etc.

Everything that is wrong with the Fiero is greatly acentuated when you double the power. If you don't like a car wandering around on you now, stick in 300 hp and see what happens. If you don't like the way it stops now, try hauling in down several times from 120. And you could probably get away with stock tires for awhile, they go fast. It's hard to keep your foot out of this one. So while it's one thing to stick in the engine, you also need brake upgrades and some suspension mods, mainly to the rear. Start with an 88 cradle. Saves a lot of time. In fact, start with an 88 car.

BTW I get 25+ mpg around town and a little more on the interstate, unless I run it. The it gets around 20. My old beefed up 2.8 only got 21.

quote Originally posted by wcapman: Everything that is wrong with the Fiero is greatly acentuated when you double the power.

Couldn't have said it better myself (but aren't you and I talking a little closer to trippleing the power?

You can do a bare bones Northstar swap, then have a car that you... have to be a little delicate with perhaps...

Or you can go all out. At the rate I'm going I'll probally have $15k+ into this thing when I'm done, *not* including the donor car. And I still think I'm playing it a bit on the under-building side...

120? the stock brakes work ONCE from 100 to zip, not twice I'd hate to see what a stop from 160 would produce on stock
friction. Probally melt a (*)&@#$* caliper.

So I won't, the big 4-pot 13"-ers are going on there

Best!
Ben.

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Ben Cannon
88 Formula, T-top, Metalic Red. "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives"
88 Formula, Northstar, Silver, In-Progreess. -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"

I'm still not at the "joy to drive" stage. The car is touchy. Turn a corner and apply a little too much power and you are likely to do a donut. I've done two now. Scares the @%^*! out of you. Let me just say that this thing is fast. Viper fast! 12 sec quarters. A Viper or a C6 vette is engineered to have this much power. The Fiero never was. I've so far spent about $1500 on the rear cradle trying to make iot behave like an 88. I've still got parts scattered all over my garage and the car is up on jack stands....again! Maybe this time it will go in straight lines more or less. But I've had to build custom spindles, custom axles, custom a-arms, now a custom sway bar and links. It never ends. And I won't rest until I can beat ALL the C6's and 911s on the autocross.

Now, if you just want to drive it on the street..carefully....you probably can get by with much less work and money. If you want to really DRIVE the car...deep pockets. And have plenty of spares.

Does anyone on here have a Northstar hooked up to a manual tranny in their Fiero and actually running? I know Artherd is working on this, but does anyone have one that is driveable?

EDIT - Just saw Will's sig. in another post along with some pics. from one of the old topics. That is absolutely awesome! I'm inspired...but must soon return to the real world.

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Long Island Fiero Enthusiasts
Dave - FIEROMAN

[This message has been edited by L.I. Fieros (edited 02-26-2002).]

quote Originally posted by artherd: You can do a bare bones Northstar swap, then have a car that you... have to be a little delicate with perhaps... Or you can go all out. At the rate I'm going I'll probally have $15k+ into this thing when I'm done, *not* including the donor car. And I still think I'm playing it a bit on the under-building side... 120? the stock brakes work ONCE from 100 to zip, not twice I'd hate to see what a stop from 160 would produce on stock friction. Probally melt a (*)&@#$* caliper. So I won't, the big 4-pot 13"-ers are going on there Best! Ben.

Well, that's $4K for the engine conversion. I've done a few other things to the car:
Lebar 16x6 wheels (set of 4, 2 used): $300
Turbo Grand Prix wheels 16x8: $100
115 rear bolt circle and intermediate shaft swap: ~$100
Also: homegrown delrin front suspension bushings, UHMW rear control arm bushings, aluminum cradle bushings, front bar on rear with custom links, and a CD player from a '97 Grand Am.