I am about to build a SBC powered fiero but thereis one thing that is bothering me is the water pump issue,do i have to cut out the wheel frame area if I use a belt driver water pump and how large also if I use the electric pump do I still have to cut the frame too? also must I still use the computer to run the guages.

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85 SE Cadero 4.9 V8

the waterpump will be in the wheelwell thats why ive chosen to get a turbo 3400 DOHC v6

Well, you don't cut the frame, but you do have to trim a hole in the wheel well itself for the water pump pulley to stick through. The pump itself doesn't stick out, I don't think. You may be able to use an electric pump to get around that. Or, if you use an LT1, it requires shifting the engine to the left, so the wheel well doesn't need to be cut at all, but you have to notch the frame on the driver's side to clear the transmission.

As always, to get the answers for any of your V8 Fiero questions right from the expert himself, go to V8 Archie.

You left out alot of information in your question. What kit are you using to do this swap? Some kits offer different solutions to the whole waterpump problem. And within each kit there are often several options to tackle this.
We need a little more info to answer your questions.

As far as kits I have not made up my mind as yet which one I am going to use I have several options available but I really am paronoid to cut the frame period especially in that location.

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85 SE Cadero 4.9 V8

V-8 archie, use a kit that actually knows what they are making

Archie's kit requires NO frame cutting, and NO wheel-well cutting (if you go with the CSI electric pump.)

Call V8 'The Man' Archie, and ask him everything you need to know.

Then open up that checkbook, you won't regret it!

Best!
Ben.

PS: you may want to think about upgrading the rest of the car at this time, suspension, brakes, etc.

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Ben Cannon
88 Formula, T-top, Metalic Red. "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives"
88 Formula, Northstar, Silver, In-Progreess. -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"

Well I think you can avoid doing any major cutting with several of the kits on the market. As much as I love some of Archies work I like the idea of shifting the motor over in the engine bay so one can use a stock small block waterpump (my buddy bought one a while back and it was only $29 canadian!) I belive there is no cutting required at all if you run the 4 speed and very minor amounts if you have a 5 or auto. Of course the axles you only do once, the waterpump you'll have to change over the lifetime of the car, something worth thinking about. Depends on your own preferance.
Look into the popular kits and then decide whats important to you. I'd try to avoid letting one company tell you about anothers kit-seems to be alot of bad info being exchanged on that topic, hehe
there are several other threads on V8's going-I'd read them too.

You do need to cut the wheel well with the CSI electric waterpump. It needs another inch or so past the wheel well. The nice thing is that once you put your wheel well liner back in you would never know. Also if the pump were to fail you could replace it in 20 minutes by removing the wheel well liner.

Jim
87 GT T-TOP V8
87 GT

Also, don't forget one potential problem with shifting the engine - you have to use custom axles. Now, that should be a one time expense, but I've heard of people breaking custom axles. I've never heard of people breaking a stock Fiero axle. Since Archie has to shift the engine to the left for his LT1 conversions, I'm sure he's already addressed this issue.

Bottom line, Archie is the man with the answers when it comes to Chevy V8 Fieros. He's got the proven track record.

When using a Getrag, a ~1&1/2" notch in the frame rail is required when moving the engine to the left 2". This is in addition to custom axles and trans mounts.

Given the choice between using custom axles, custom trans mounts, and removing significant cross sectional area from a frame rail (which stirkes me as just plain... inadvisable in any swap in any chassis)
OR
using stock axles, stock trans mounts, and cutting a relatively small hole in a relatively unstressed wheel house to make room for a W/P drive with a virtually nill failure rate, I know which one I'd pick.

For those of you who are a little dense : I think that moving the drivetrain over 2" (or at all) is NOT the best idea.

quote Originally posted by Jimmy: You do need to cut the wheel well with the CSI electric waterpump. It needs another inch or so past the wheel well. The nice thing is that once you put your wheel well liner back in you would never know. Also if the pump were to fail you could replace it in 20 minutes by removing the wheel well liner.

I did fold the lip of the frame down to allow plenty of room. I've run 2 tires off the rim on that side in curves and never had any problem with it bothering the CSI pump with no cover. I am a satisfied customer of CSI. I have approximately 3 years of daily driving on this CSI pump with no problems. I used the basic Archie kit and I am very satisfied with his product and his help and advise.

Now go create some Bluemagic!

Here are some pics of the CSI waterpump and the sheet metal that is displaced by it. AS opposed to the frame cutting you have to do with the Zumwalt style kits, this sheet metal is a pretty minor modification. You will note that the plastic inner wheel well liner will cover this up upon completion. Anyone who would choose to put in a 6 banger instead of a SBC because of this is not thinking things thru very well.

Archie

Thanks Archie I feel much better now that I have an idea of how it is ,I can live with that.

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85 SE Cadero 4.9 V8

I've heard from several people that I've talked to that electric water pumps have a short life, someone said they are only expected to run 300 hours. Of course he was using one in his achohol car I think he said...I'm not sure what an alchohol car is, but it's some form of racing...that i'm sure of. Anyway, is the CSI water pump different from these some how, or do they too go out often?

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88 4Cyl ... Rebuilding 81 Vette Engine for it now.
Check progress at http://higher.thoughtprocess.net/fiero/

quote Originally posted by gggg-us: I've heard from several people that I've talked to that electric water pumps have a short life, someone said they are only expected to run 300 hours. Of course he was using one in his achohol car I think he said...I'm not sure what an alchohol car is, but it's some form of racing...that i'm sure of. Anyway, is the CSI water pump different from these some how, or do they too go out often?

That would be a drag racing car. There are several different types of electric Water Pumps, I would suggest that the one he is using is probally the old Morosso belt drive electric motor driven Drag Racing pump. The CSI that we are talking about is rated for 2000 to 3000 hours. If you drove your car for 4 hours a day for 5 days a week for 50 weeks a year, it would last at least 2 years.

Archie

....and a new motor for the CSI pump is only $99 when it goes bad. It should only take about 20 minutes to swap the pump motor in my Fiero. I know a couple local guys that have been running the CSI for well over three years in their hotrods. I am VERY happy with my CSI pump, no cooling problems with my CSI and a four core radiator. In fact my setup runs cooler than a stock V6 fiero.

Jim
87 GT T-TOP V8
87 GT

Must the pump be mounted upside down? What about the Moroso pumps?

Thanks

If you don't mount the CSI pump right-side-up the water outlet would dump strait into the frame rail. Take a close look at Archie's pics and you'll see what I mean.

Moroso is cheaper but only flows about half the rate of the CSI. The CSIs are now rated at 37 gpm and the Moroso is about 19 gpm.

Jim
87 GT T-TOP V8
87 GT

[This message has been edited by Jimmy (edited 02-05-2002).]

Has anyone run an electric pump in really cold climates? I'm in ND & I need my car to be reliable to -30 F...do these pumps do well at these temps, assuming the antifreeze is strong enough?

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Jason Kamrud

My brother has been driving my Fiero to the shop and back getting it ready for paint for the last week. Not exactly sub zero weather here in Minneapolis but cold none the less. I don't know that I would be driving my Fiero in the winter let alone a V8 Fiero. I know Archie has a winter beater that he drives in the winter for parts running, I think that one has a CSI in it.

Jim

where do I get this CSI pump?

Archie, what are you trying to do, hurt my feelings! And I bought my kit from you for my 4.3L!

you can get the csi pump at summit or jegs I personnaly didnt like the csi pump on my 88 it was to tight a fit I went with the cvr pump that jegs sells it pumps 37 gpm like the csi but its smaller.

is it supposed to last as long as the CSI?

What's the price difference? and what is the web site for this jegs place?

Well said.

quote Originally posted by Archie: Anyone who would choose to put in a 6 banger instead of a SBC because of this is not thinking things thru very well.

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Ben Cannon
88 Formula, T-top, Metalic Red. "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives"
88 Formula, Northstar, Silver, In-Progreess. -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"

[This message has been edited by artherd (edited 02-06-2002).]

www.jegs.com

quote Originally posted by miatav8: Archie, what are you trying to do, hurt my feelings! And I bought my kit from you for my 4.3L!

What did I say?

Which V-8 kit did you use for the Miata?

Archie

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The CVR pump, does it get mounted upside down? Does it protrude through the wheel well? I am in the process of purchasing a pump. I thought i knew what i wanted that is until i read this thread. I was originally going to purchase the Moroso. Then I thought the CSI pump and i actually was going to order it last night. Now I would like to know more about this CVR pump.

Thanks
Msaby

quote Originally posted by Msaby: Must the pump be mounted upside down? What about the Moroso pumps? Thanks

I took the motor out of the CSI housing and turned it 180 degrees due to the fact there is a weep hole designed to go on the bottom. I noticed Archie did not do this on the picks he posted. If you look closely you can see the small notch on the top side of the pump. Jason at CSI allowed this would be proper to have this weep hole on the bottom and should be changed due to the inlet needing to be on top. He advised to be carefull with the gasket and it shouldn't tear if the pump has not been put into service. I also drilled holes to facilitate getting an allen wrench to the bolts that mount the pump to the block. It is difficult to get at the bottom bolts without this.

[This message has been edited by Butter (edited 02-07-2002).]

"Anyone using a v6 instead of the v8 isnt thinking things through" Archie, I bought a partial kit from you for my 4.3L install a couple years ago. No big deal, some people whine but it truly is all good. I noticed you've been a member of the Yahoo groups miata v8 forum but you never post. I have a '93 turbo miata for my wife and a '94 for my v8 swap but I'm not using a kit. Martin is the only guy with a kit($4000) and there is a place in Vancouver that does T-bird Super coupe v6's. I'm reusing my rear with chromemoly axles.

the cvr mounts upside down, but you can flip the motor over (like the csi) The cvr still needs a hole cut but it doesnt stick as far into the wheel well.

if the pump cvr pump is reversed than i must tap and plug the hole in the block? sorry for the questions, just want to make sure i have the facts straight.
Thanks
Msaby