I would like to hear what scan tool works the best and the cheapest. I would like to have it hook up to a laptop for "real time" results while on the road.
This is for my 88GT 2.8

If you're wanting to hear which scanner is best AND cheapest, that doesn't exist in the scanner world. The best ones aren't cheap (in any sense of the word). If you're looking to use a laptop, you're a step up on the game. The laptop can be used with almost as much flexibility as professional scanners at a fraction of the cost.

The best scanner, in my opinion, is a Snap-On scanner with all the chips available. You can use this on any vehicle and a wealth of information is on top very quickly and easily. If you're going to be vehicle specific (just your Fiero, for example) this kind of flexibility isn't necessary. For a laptop, there are lots of programs out there that you have to choose from, and you just need to buy a hook up cable (or make one, usually costs the same).

I haven't researched the scanner programs for the laptop much, so can't help you out here. Just wanted to inform you best and cheapest don't co-exist If you're looking for quality, be prepared to pay for it. There are free programs out there, but they won't be nearly as good as the ones that cost.

Bryce
88 GT

It also depends on how much tunning you plan to do with it. For normal day to day diagnostic my AutoXray ($150.00) is invaluable. But if you need to go to the nitty gritty and want to capture data for later analysis then the PC will be the choice.

I think that for the 30.00 (ebay)I spent on my OTC 2000 it is the best value. Its not the easiest to use but it does the job and you can get them cheap.

I am no rocket sientis or anything, I would just like to drive around maybe get in a race mode just for the results. The best/cheapest ...I hear ya. I need to hear from people that have a decent scanner that would show graphs and "real time" (revs, oil press,etc.)while driving or in the garage. I do but don't trust the gauges. Car was burnt when I got it.
thanks for the info guys!!

Yeah, I have a laptop, so I'd love some info on hooking it up as a scan tool. Sources on the software and cable would be great.

I've got a ProLink 9000 myself (bought out by Snap-On recently) - they're only about $1500US.

But if you want to go the laptop route, hit : http://www.euronet.nl/users/fo_elmo/aldlinterface.htm for the hardware portion, then : http://www.euronet.nl/users/fo_elmo/software.htm to get the software part.

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87/88 V6 5spd Notchback Hybrid

Is anyone using a laptop with these programs, I am interested in going the laptop route.

I would like to see how well this works, from someone who actually uses it.

Thanks

Andrew

mt2500- 3000$
autozone-50$
paperclip-priceless

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1985 GT V6
"LETS RACE"

The Oliver Scholz Scanner!!!

Hook up your laptop and see EVERYTHING at once... I love it.

quote mt2500- 3000$ autozone-50$ paperclip-priceless

hehe, yeah right! If you really think a paperclip or $50 scanner can come close to a real scanner, you have no idea.

Voyageur, I have an OTC with some older software (pre 88). I am thinking of getting updated software for including newer cars. Would you know the number of the newer software thats used for GM cars? TIA
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quote posted by voyagerspe: I think that for the 30.00 (ebay)I spent on my OTC 2000 it is the best value. Its not the easiest to use but it does the job and you can get them cheap.

I use Diacom Plus with a laptop. You can see more items at one time on the screen.

I have an OTC 2000 with chips up to 89, but for some damn reason I can't get it to work properly on my car. It won't accept my VIN information as valid info, but will if I say it's a P4 ECM from a different model of the same year. Oh, another odd thing, after giving it the Fiero VIN identification, it offers the 2.5, 2.8, and 5.0 as engine choices..??? Anyway, I'm getting a snap-on scanner with chips to 97(or so) pretty soon, so that won't be a problem

I'll look into the laptop software. I have a good laptop, but don't have a data cable yet. It would be a cool novelty to be able to use the laptop for scanning my car data, tweaking my PROM settings, burning a new prom, and scanning again...show off ya know! The snap on scanner is just easier right now, and I'm getting a really good deal on it.

Anybody ever have any issues with the OTC 2000 reading the 88 GT PROM?

Bryce
88 GT

quote Originally posted by rockcrawl: hehe, yeah right! If you really think a paperclip or $50 scanner can come close to a real scanner, you have no idea.

really a paper clip is the best for an at home mechanic you are only trying to retrieve codes that come up... If you want info on the EGR,IAC,TEMP, or emissions sytem yeah spend 3000 grand on the snapon truck but in my advise if you dont you use a scanner daily like I do dont go in debt for it use a paper clip. I use my scanner pretty often , at least often enough for me to drop 3000 so for an at home mechanic 3 grand is too much to waste on family cars in my opinion

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1985 GT V6
"LETS RACE"

3K for a scanner? Huh? Diacom is $250-ish to $450 for a PC, the handhelds are in the $150 to $500 range.

I feel that a paperclip is half of the battle! A scan tool hooked up to a laptop will give a better idea of the situation and maybe something that the "clip" codes didn't show. Sure I have used paperclips, soon I will have advanced to use a better way of finding out the problems and in a "real time" fashion.
3k???? no no no you better find a better place to get your stuff! Just a few hundred bucks is cheaper, than paying that every time you need to take to a mechanic. To each his own ...right? lol

I just use Oliver's scantool

it's the cheapest option that shows info!

Full onscreen display of all sensors at the same time, realtime, on a laptop. Can't beat it for $80

I've got an older model AutoXray. It's nice and small. easy to use. Only being able to see one item at a time is a rare handycap. It does have a trap function that will grab an event plus the readings on either side of the event. That way you can see the reading leading up to stalling out for example.(I think the trap stores 1 minute of total time when activated.)

One thing to watch out for is that the ECMs in Fiero are known to be affected when hooked to a scanner. That can skew readings and mess with idle. AutoXray tells you that right in the documentation. Even the "more advanced" DIS motor's ECM is mildly effected when on the scanner, but it's no big deal. I've driven my DIS motor plenty of times with the scanner running. AutoXray says if the idle goes way off then you shouldn't drive while scanning.

Info, please on how to locate these, particular one that is compatible with a handheld.

Hey FIERO1985, revin is asking for something that can give him "real time" results while on the road. Sure, a new MT-2500 is close to $3000, but I got mine off the Snap-On truck for $200, a used trade in with domestic updates through '93. There are other less expensive options also. I don't think he is looking for a paper clip. So sorry if I offended you, and thumbs down to you too :P

someone mentioned that there was a plug for the palm pilot in another thread. i want one of those. unobtrusive. something i can easliy monitor while i'm driving it adn not have to look at a laptop in the seat next to me. they said the plug was like $20 through snapon. anyone know about it? part#'s? programs?

Ogre,
So are you saying that it is not advisable to drive while running a scan tool? Has anyone really had some sort "trouble" doing this? From what I understand you cannot reprogram anything through the laptop,or a hand held scanner.(at least on a shade tree mechanic scale. I just see it as a loop between the EMC and the laptop. right? and hell if its just the idle that acts up, I already have that. HA HA maybe it would cancel each other out and idle perfect! ha ha

Real time scanning can skew various numbers. I've actually seen this happen on my DIS motor. Just how much, and how bad, it is affected depends on what ECM/Engine is involved. All real time scanners can have this problem.

In my case the scanner won't make the car undriveable but you can see the idle shift slightly from about 900 normally to 1000 while scanning. I'm not aware of any stock Fiero that becomes undriveable. It's just something to be aware of when using a scanner.

Quoting from AutoXray,

The capture mode helps diagnose intermitant driveability problems by capturing data before, after, and during the occurence of the problem.

Becasue the ignition timing is affected, it is recomended that carburated vehciles are not driven while being scanned. A few fuel injected vehicles are also affected. If your Idle speed is affected on a fuel injected vehicle, it is recomemended that the vehcile is not driven while being scanned.

Also, there's a learning curve to reading scanner results, and a scanner can't always tell you when a sensor is lieing to the ECM. Small sensor errors commonly won't set codes and without additional tools you can't see these problems.

Example, one that happened to me. The MAT sensor in my DIS motor was skewed from backfire damage. This caused a 45 error but only under certain weather conditions and only at idle. To make this more annoying, the Haynes book doesn't cover DIS, and I couldn't afford nearly $100 for helms, so I didn't even know the MAT sensor existed on this motor. I didn't find out the sensor was there until I bought my scanner. The scanner told me what the sensor thought the manifold air temp was, but the sensor was lieing and the ECM drove the fule mix rich. I dug around until I found the MAT, and found it was damaged. Once it was replaced, after replacing every other sensor, the errors stopped. In this case I could see obvious damage but that doesn't happen with other sensors like ECT. If the ECT is 20-30 degrees off you'd never know w/o a pyrometer. A MAT or ECT that's only 20-30F off can skew ignition timing and fuel mix, causing any number of odd performance or fuel economy problems.

I would have replaced all those old sensors anyway but that didn't make the problem any less annoying. The only real help the scanner was? It told me I had a sensor Haynes said didn't exist. The only way to verify the MAT would have been with a very thin thermocouple inserted thru a vacuum port.

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 11-22-2001).]

I bought a Actron Scantool off ebay for $100 bucks. And got the catridge for 20-30 bucks.

that is a great deal when its 300 bucks total at a car parts store.

I have used it on a friends mustang. I can view the codes, it will have a mode where i can jiggle all the sensor connections and tell me if theres a short. It will give me real time info while the car is running. I havn't tried it while the car was moving, because ford has the plug in the engine compartment while gm has it in the car.

It will check abs codes and trans codes for fords that im aware of.

The only things that suck is, not every sensor has real time info available on the scanner. Usually voltage readings are given or ms for fuel injectors etc... depending on the sensor. I just got a newer version of the catridge, so im going to see if more sensors are included in the readings when i test my tbird out.

It is a good tool to see what the codes are, and atleast give you some idea, when the engine is in open/closed loop. And what sensors seem to be off. You CANT diagnose it by looking at the real time info, you also have to check the codes that the computer gives out. Unless the sensor is totally off or dead.

Would like info on the palm pilot being connected. hardware, which palm to use and software

and will this allow you to make changes thru the palm in the car.

Thanks
Jimmy B.

quote Originally posted by rockcrawl: Hey FIERO1985, revin is asking for something that can give him "real time" results while on the road. Sure, a new MT-2500 is close to $3000, but I got mine off the Snap-On truck for $200, a used trade in with domestic updates through '93. There are other less expensive options also. I don't think he is looking for a paper clip. So sorry if I offended you, and thumbs down to you too :P

Lets be childish RockCrawl and say thumbs down to you. You show a high level of intelligence. Also I lacked to read the whole article so I was un-aware of the drivability tests he was wanting to do and the paperclip Idea was just a though for a stubburn EGR code or emmisions **** . I also paid 3k for a new MT-2500 with cartridges and such 200 for that scanner is bullshit. If it retails on the truck for 3000 then I see it sell for 800 at the least on ebay for a fairly abused one. I am sorry but you are not talking about the 2500 off the Snap-On truck are you?? Oh well I guess I will return those gay ass thumbs down to you! Only trying to prove a point to rockcrawl. No flames intended nor do I wish to recieve any!

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1985 GT V6
"LETS RACE"

I have to agree with grinthock. I also use Oliver's scantool. Actually I think it is only $75 with shipping from Germany to the US. He is very responsive on email, and ships right away. Also there is other add-on software for it, or you can simply use a terminal program on your laptop, capture the data and then load it into Excel for charting and graphing as you want.

His web site is http://home.t-online.de/home/O_Scholz/fieroidx.html

Have a nice day!

I just want to thank all of ya'll for giving me "your option" for the scan tool advice. I can see that I will have some brain smoking thinking to do on this one. I will get one! and I will share my finding with all of you!
thanks again!

I finally did it. Became utterly disgusted at our inability to isolate the root cause of a backfire in my son's 88 Fiero 2.5L, so I purchased one of those "Ease" PC scanners.

Things I like:

Very complete, seems to read entire data stream. Will display 6 selected strip charts at a time, and you can plot 12 parameters during or after your logging run. I especially like the fact that *all* parameters are logged simultaneously during recording sessions and that all parameters are available for later post analysis. Cursor zooms and excel dumps are easily executed. I recommend that you use a program like "clipmate" to "alt-print screen" jpg images of what you see (mush faster than onsite printing).

Con's - I *hate* laptops. Our first run ended in failure when the laptop battery gave out. My OBDII scanner runs on a handspring visor and is much easier to use and power (200hrs). The laptop connects to the Fiero's OBDI port via about 25 ft of cables (included) and one of the cables sports a cigarette lighter DC plug for signal conditioning. Big mess. Difficult to fit into a Fiero. Yeech.

I must admit though, that the laptop route is probably the best if you are facing unusual intermittent gremlins which defy the more typical "isolate the $20 part for replacement" routine. Ditto for tuning or tweaking fuel systems.

Sometimes you just need to pucker and buy the tool. I can see no way that a simpler scanner or palm pilot could record all this muck. Your best hope would be a pocket PC with an IBM microdrive for logging....but you'd still need to bring it in for display. For normal duties...I much prefer the palm pilot.
http://www.obd2.com/ http://www.injectoclean.com/English/Products/CJ-II/cj-ii.html