I put stainless steel brake lines on by 88 Formula 5-sp and they are well worth it. Not to mention that they are not much more that putting new rubber on. G-tech results before gave me a best of 130 ft 60-0 and with the stainless lines 129 ft. However, the most important difference is the pressure on the pedal. It is much less with the stainless. Before the stainless it felt like I had to just about jump on the pedal in quick stops but with the stainless lines pressure is effortless and control of brakes is much better. By the way my best 0-60 time was 7.19 secs with a power pulley and a 160 deg thermo as only mods. Not bad for 98,000 mi.

Yeah, they're great!

Cheaper than new OE rubber lines too.

I still say that people complaining about the Fiero's brakes need to take a long hard look through their current system, because something is broken.

The stock brakes, when functioning properly, are decent enough for normal road use.

However, I am adapting (much) larger brakes onto my fiero. Why? Because I want it to stop from 160mph 10 times in a row withought bursting into flame.

But yeah, BIG thumbs up for the Earls Stainless/Teflon/braided lines. Some of the Best $100 you can spend on our cars

Best!
Ben

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Ben Cannon
88 Formula, T-top, Metalic Red           "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives"
88 Formula, Northstar, Silver                     -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"

excuses the ignorance, but where does one get Earls Stainless/Teflon/braided lines from??

thanks
Tim

Just about the entire first post in this thread indicates major issues with the system. Like cause of the original complaint... (And that's if only the brake lines were changed...)

1. OE brake lines with internal swelling.

Having spent thousands of hours by now working on Fiero brakes and the problems people have reported, I agree 100% with Ben(artherd). The vast majority of people hacking the Fiero brakes are compairing the performance of upgrades to OE systems with serious problems. An OE system in good condition and properly adjusted stops allot better than people think.

There are things, like what Ben is doing, where OE brakes aren't going to cut it. There's no doubt about that. If you are doing SCCA racing and similar stuff then OE Fiero brakes aren't going to cut it for long.

Please don't ever compare gains against old OE lines which are commonly damaged from oil that has soaked thru the jacket. (The most likely cause of Montage's original problems.)

As for the SS lines.... The jury is still out on them.

Performance wise there is no measurable differance in stopping distance between the SS and NEW OE lines. A couple feet one way or the other is not meaningfull.

One posible benifit is that SS lines may allow the fluid in the flex line to cool faster. The rubber will trap allot of heat.

Reliability is also a concern. Long Term life of SS line materials are still questionable. In the scheme of the car world, it' only very recently DOT approved lines made to FMVSS standard 106 have become available. While the standard is tough, there simply isn't any long term data from real world use of these products.

Non DOT approved lines have been known to rupture after as little as 1 year.

The most common mode of failure is an internal strand of the jacket breaking and punching the lining. While this can happen any where along the line, it's most common at the ends where there is less flex. This can happen to SS lines that look like they are in good shape.

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11-Sept-01, The day the world as we knew it ended.

I think the the jury is not still out on the SS lines. I personaly have been running the same set of Earls lines on my Power Wagon for over 18 years and 100,000+ miles with not one problem. This truck weighs 6,000 ponds empty, has 44 inch tires and a 1956 hemi engine in it with drum brakes(you realy have to stand on them bit it will lock all four). It will eat brake shoes like crazy but the lines are fine I also have SS lines on my honda Interceptor for 10 years and 50,000 miles. Many people in southern California have been using earls lines for the last 20 years since they started as a local shop, and I have never heard of any problems. The only thing new is the DOT approval. When we used to buy them from Earls we had to sign a form stating it was understood they where for racing only and not for street use. As the people at Earls explained to me there lines were not DOT approved becuse they where custom and DOT required testing for each different line configuration.

Do new cars come with all stainless lines?

Personally, I can definitely say that every set of ss braided lines I have installed has provided a noticable improvement in pedal feel as compared to the old rubber lines they replaced. If replacing the old rubber with new rubber would have provided a similar improvement I cannot say. The main safety concern with ss lines is the possibility of stress cracks at the point where the fitting is swaged or cripedn onto the line. Depending on the application, the choice of fittings, and the way the vehicle is used, breaks have been known to occur after a short period. This doesn't mean using these lines is a bad idea, it always pays to be informed and know what to look out for.

I have just gone through the entire brake system on my 88. New rotors, performance pads, rebuilt calipers and braided stainless lines. Before the rebuild, the brakes were decent at best. After the new stuff, the braking is really good. But, when I did the same thing on my 85 a couple of years ago and used rubber lines, it was also a big improvement over the old stuff.

One thing that made a BIG difference on the brakes was swapping a softer spring in the proportioning valve. I used the spring from a 91 Camaro R/S with rear drum brakes. The spring was shortened a little, but installation was still quick and easy. I still can't lock up the rears in straight, dry braking, but it is still a difference that you can feel.

[This message has been edited by Cooter (edited 11-08-2001).]

Well I have the stainless hoses on half my car (driver side), I have to do the other side tomorrow. I was forced to drive my car (only means of transportation) and the brakes were terrible. They will be much better when I get the air outta the system, lol. Note to anyone, don't leave the job half finished if you have to drive!

lol, well it was fun anyways.