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A tale of two pushrods (clutch MC) by MrPBody
Started on: 11-07-2001 08:51 PM
Replies: 7
Last post by: MrPBody on 11-09-2001 09:10 PM
MrPBody
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Report this Post11-07-2001 08:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MrPBodyClick Here to visit MrPBody's HomePageSend a Private Message to MrPBodyDirect Link to This Post
We all know Fiero clutch hydraulics are a pain, right? They're mysterious and messy, and too often they don't work. I've been dorking-around with mine for a few weeks.

After sudden failure, I replaced clutch master and slave cylinders. I bled the hydraulics as many ways as I could think of (fast, slow, alone, with a helper, with a catch tank, with a MityVac, with the slave cylinder dangling, with the car's rear elevated, with the front elevated). I compared the bore sizes of old and new cylinders. I used the guts from my new cast slave cylinder to rebuild my old OEM slave cylinder. I threw wrenches and cursed. I flushed about 5 cans of brake fluid through the system. (I think all the air is out.) Pedal effort felt good; however, slave cylinder travel was too short, and the clutch did not fully disengage. All very annoying. I’ve repaired clutch hydraulics on lots of cars; it ain’t rocket science. Why is this one so perverse?

And then I found the reason . . .

This photo shows pushrods from two superficially identical Girling first-design clutch master cylinders. The lower rod is from my old master cylinder; the upper rod is from my new replacement cylinder. (I transplanted the bushing from old to new rod.)

Although the pushrod lengths appear very different, their effective lengths are almost the same beccause of internal differences in the master cylinders. HOWEVER, the new shorter pushrod does not allow the clutch pedal to return fully to its stop. Because the clutch pedal begins its travel at a lower point, the effective stroke of the new master cylinder is about 1/4” shorter than the old one. Of course, a shorter stroke displaces less fluid to the slave cylinder.

I gotta say -- after a few weeks of frustrated uncertainty, it's good to find a visible problem. Here’s my solution, the good old adjustable pushrod:

It works! Lots of other people (e.g. skitime) have posted variations on this problem and solution. This really is something you should check if your’re having problems with your clutch after replacing the master cylinder, particularly an aftermarket cylinder. Maybe this is why GM master cylinders work better – not a hydraulic but a mechanical problem.

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recluse
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Report this Post11-07-2001 11:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for recluseSend a Private Message to recluseDirect Link to This Post
Looks like a very good idea! I might have to try that. I just wonder if it will be strong enough to last a while.
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MrPBody
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Report this Post11-08-2001 08:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MrPBodyClick Here to visit MrPBody's HomePageSend a Private Message to MrPBodyDirect Link to This Post
We'll see. I hope so!

Fatigue is a concern. The pushrod sees some bending load because of the offset eye, and I weakened the rod by cutting threads in it. On the other hand, the new pushrod is larger diameter than the old one.

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Phil
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Report this Post11-08-2001 08:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PhilSend a Private Message to PhilDirect Link to This Post
While working under my dash today ( in between naps) installing a new clutch pedal stop ( I have too much throw, believe it or not) I found another potential source lost travel. The shaft that the pedal pivots on does not appear to fit very snuggly and the pedal will rock from side to side very slightly causing a loss of about 1/8" of push rod movement. I don't know if there is a bushing in there or not but it would an area for further investigation.
Just food for thought.
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VISCERAL
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Report this Post11-08-2001 09:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for VISCERALSend a Private Message to VISCERALDirect Link to This Post
Hey Phil, Rodney Dickman sells replacement pedal bushings on his website. www.rodneydickman.com
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FieroMaster88
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Report this Post11-08-2001 09:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroMaster88Send a Private Message to FieroMaster88Direct Link to This Post
I am having the SAME problem with my clutch. I used the factory GM master and slave, line and I replaced the clutch. It STILL doesnt move far enough to disengauge the clutch! Maybe I will look into this. SOMETHING has to be wrong.....right?

------------------

James Essar
AOL IM Name: FieroMaster88
Not your ordinary 88 coupe!

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Phil
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Report this Post11-09-2001 07:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PhilSend a Private Message to PhilDirect Link to This Post
I've played with 3 different manual shift Fiero's, 2-88's and a 85, so far and each one of them wound up with a clutch the works fine about half way to the floor. Removing all the slop in the pedal area seems to do the most.
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MrPBody
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Report this Post11-09-2001 09:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MrPBodyClick Here to visit MrPBody's HomePageSend a Private Message to MrPBodyDirect Link to This Post
Maybe Rodney can devise a better adjustable pushrod.
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