Question:

What is the difference between Mid engine and Rear engine (and you guys thought I would say front engine)...Seems to me I can't think of any rear engine cars.

I believe the accepted definition, normally, is that mid-engine cars have thier engine in front of the gearbox/transmission and rear engine cars have thier engine behind. Anybody have a different take?

------------------
Mike
Ocala, Florida
'86 2M4

The old VW Bug was rear engine(engine behind the rear wheels)

What he said...the major difference would be the handling characteristics. There is a somewhat different set of rules for driving mid-engined vehicles.

Turn the little wheel, and it goes where you point it! I have never gotten mine to actually break loose yet, even though I have pushed it pretty hard. Has any one else?

------------------

Using OcalaFiero's definition, we'd be driving 'side-engine' cars.

Rear-engine has the engine mounted all the way in back, like old VW Beetles and most Porsches.

Mid-engine has the engine closer to being directly above the rear wheels and closer to the seating positions, with room in between the engine and the rear bumper for trunk space of some kind, like the Lotus, Fieros and most Ferraris.

Mid-engine cars are usually a lot closer to that magical 50%-50% front-to-rear weight balance that makes handling so nimble and tight.

------------------
Patrick W. Heinske -- LZeitgeist@aol.com
1988 Red Fiero Formula
- 1st Place - Stock Coupe - FOCOSEVA 2000
- 3rd Place - Stock Formula - FOCOA Nat'l 2001
- Class Winner - 1982 to Present - 2001 Tarheel Tigers All-Pontiac Show

The crankshaft is the deciding factor. If it is ahead of the rear axels and behind pass. compartment(as in Fiero) it is mid-enging.

------------------

Dnyee's 88 Formula, Casey's 86GT, Wayne's 86GT.
We consider my wife as being "Fiero Challenged"

quote Originally posted by LZeitgeist: Using OcalaFiero's definition, we'd be driving 'side-engine' cars.

Not if you're spending alot of time sliding through corners.....In that case sometimes it would be mid engine and sometimes rear engine...

That must mean my Fiero is FWD, as im always sliding backwards *inno*

------------------
Tyler Morgan, 1986 GT

Power Steering, Holley Scoop
Aim=FieroDriver1986

mid engine just refers to the engine being behind the front axle and infront of the rear axle. You CAN have a car with the engine up front that is still a mid engine design.

rear engine = behind the rear axle
front engine = infront of the front axle

quote Originally posted by BurlyGoat: ...Seems to me I can't think of any rear engine cars.

I can... Corvair, Volkswagen Beetle, a bunch of Porsches, plus a dorky (sorry, JMHO ) little French car I can't think of the name of (an "Isabella"?).

I don't really know what the definition of midengine is exactly, but I vote that: Looking at the plan view of a car, if the C.G. of the engine lies between the front and rear axles, I'd call it a "midengine" car. Others might say it's the centroid of the engine's volume, or centerline of the crank; I suspect most of the time it wouldn't matter much.

Using that definition, Mazda RX-7's could be called midengine (some magazine somewhere called it a "front midengine" car), and so is an L29 Cord.

Ordinarliy, I think of a midengine car as: the C.G. of the engine is between the front and rear axles, and closer to the rear axle. But, again, I really don't know what the exact definintion is

[This message has been edited by StuGood (edited 10-05-2001).]

I must have been on glue not to remember the good old bug. I wonder if the fine engineers at GM will ever design a rear engine, front wheel drive car ?

Since when can a "mid-engine" car have the engine in front of the driver? That's a new one on me... can anybody add some clarification to that?

I had a buddy of mine insist that since the engine is behind me it is a rear engine car. I told him that there is a difference between my engine/transmission layout and a true rear engine car i.e. Porsche,VW aircooled,etc.

"If my car is rear engine, why is there room for a small compartment between the engine and the license plate? If I lowere the rear is there a chance of dragging the engine/transmission like in a Porsche or VW?"

He still insisted. I showed mercy because he drives a truck.

Sly

quote Originally posted by LZeitgeist: Since when can a "mid-engine" car have the engine in front of the driver? That's a new one on me... can anybody add some clarification to that?

As was mentioned, the RX-7 counts as a mid-engine car because the engine CG is between the front axle and the rear axle. It also has a 51/49 weight ratio (near balanced) that typifies and is the strength of mid-engine cars. The engine is small enough to be contained between the "leg wells" of the two passengers - one of the few engines that could be.

There was a small American builder (in I think Conneticut?) that built a runabout that had an inline six between the passengers driving the rear wheels. An Uncle of mine had one when I was a kid, very wide 2 seater car, something like a fat MG-TD (Excalibur??) and I can't think of the name .... it was doomed though since he company was launched in 1929 --- (anybody help me out on the name?)

But all the noted mid-engine cars have it outback. It is easier to install the engine behind the driver ... especially if you want any legroom!

I just thought of another midengine vehicle - I believe Toyota called it the "Previa." Whatever it's called, the one I'm thinking of is a minivan, and it has a 4-cylinder water cooled engine in the middle, kind of laying on its side, like it's taking a nap.

quote Originally posted by DaveL: Turn the little wheel, and it goes where you point it! I have never gotten mine to actually break loose yet, even though I have pushed it pretty hard. Has any one else?

Yeah, I've broken loose. Try a right hand turn at 40 mph. Just dont do it in rush hour traffic. I almost crashed into lexus.

Another time was getting onto the expressway. I ended up going off road, but I think I could have recovered that one.

About three days ago, taking a 25mph offramp at 55, it slid a bit, but was ok.

Funnest part about a mid-engine setup, is if you do break loose, you tap the brakes and bring back in. I did that once taking a 90 degree right hand turn at 60. Car just slide to the left, I tapped the breaks causing the nose to really tuck in and bite, came out of the turn loosing only 5 mph!!!

quote Originally posted by BurlyGoat: I must have been on glue not to remember the good old bug. I wonder if the fine engineers at GM will ever design a rear engine, front wheel drive car ?

Why would anyone want to build one of those?
The way GM is going I'd expect to see one in a few years.

quote Originally posted by StuGood: I don't really know what the definition of midengine is exactly, but I vote that: Looking at the plan view of a car, if the C.G. of the engine lies between the front and rear axles, I'd call it a "midengine" car. Others might say it's the centroid of the engine's volume, or centerline of the crank; I suspect most of the time it wouldn't matter much.

That definition would put quite a few cars into the mid engine category. For example; a lot (if not all) Corvettes have the center of the engine behind the center of the front wheels. Even on a 2000 Mustang V6 the front wheels line up appoximately with the first cylinder. I suspect it would technically be a mid engine by that definition. Also add pretty much all rear wheel drive vans...

It's probably technically correct put I think a more common definition would be the one where the engine is between the axles and behind the driver.

I was getting onto the 57 freeway on downward right turn and pushing pretty hard when the coil decided RIGHT then to pause for a few cycles.

I got a first hand account of the mystical experience known as drop throttle oversteer. My door stopped 3 feet from a light pole.

Took my flat spotted tires and what was left of my pride and got back on the freeway...

Is a front engine dragster really a mid engine rear driver car?

quote Originally posted by hugh: Is a front engine dragster really a mid engine rear driver car?

No hugh, it's a front engine deal.

However, in my own opinion, a top fuel dragster is mid engine. At first, since the engine is behind the driver, as in a Fiero, you might think that it is a rear engine vehicle. A Top Fuel dragster, in my opinion, is also mid-engine. Whenever there is space between the engine and the furthest rearward point on a vehicle, it's mid-engine.

A Porsehe and VW beetle are rear engine. There is nothing else left back there.
Not in a Fiero, Lotus, MR2 (fiero clone).

Sly

quote Originally posted by hugh: Is a front engine dragster really a mid engine rear driver car?

Nice pun

And it depends on the dragster you're talking about. If it's a slingshot dragster, then yes. If it's closer to a stock bodied car then it might qualify as being mid engined, but not rear driver.

Then I have 3 mid engine vehicles,2 88GT's and 1 rear engine dragster.

------------------

I had always been told it was the relation of the engine to the rear axle... In front or on was MID, behind the rear axle was REAR. This all gives the fact that the crew compartment is in FRONT of the engine

I make the mistake of saying REAR engine in coversation with a fellow Lotus owner... BIG MISTAKE!!! After that, I decided that it is VERY important to get it right EVERY time

It's an easy slip to make... We, as Fiero owners, like to point out that the car is REAR wheel drive and that the engine is in the REAR of the car, so "Rear engine, Rear wheel drive" often pops out of our mouths without thinking...

That's where Toyota figured out the "Cheater code" for those duped into buying a MR2 rather than Fiero... MR2: M as in MID, R as in REAR, 2 as in seater. Pontiac seems to have the same idea, just not as quick witted... 2 as in seater, M as in MID, 6 as in cylinder.

Just remember... M is for MID!!!

DKOV -

It has to do with where the rear axel is in comparison to the engine. The quick turning is not just because of a near 50/50 weight dist. but because most of the weight is near the center. A car magazine I read used the comparison of a figure skater spinning in circles, when they stick out their leg is slows them down but when they stand straight with their limbs near the center of rotation they pick up a lot of speed.

Hope it makes sense.

-Charlie

what about the old fiat, wasnt that rear engine? dont know for sure. there is one in a feild out near me that i almost bought, but decided it would be too much work

------------------
We are all different for a reason.....
you can read a persons soul through there eyes.....
he who argues with a fool is probably one himself.....
big cars may be fast, but i can corner.....

BlackDragonsEmail@yahoo.com

Mid engined cars have the engine over or in front of the rear axle . Neither the rx7 or the new corvette ( which has the transmission incorporated into the rear and an almost 50/50 weight distribution) are mid engined cars. The fiero is the only americam mid engined automobile ( so far ).

a mid engine car has the engine place slightly in front of your rear axles where as a rear engine sits behind the axles.

Thats a pretty debated topic. The fiat though is probably a rear engine. My uncles has the engine mounted longitudinally behind the axle.

------------------

• project - finale body on a 86 4 cylinder 5 speed
  
• www.geocities.com/rmorgandotcom/
  

My understanding is rear engine cars have the engine behind the rear axel, like VW Beetles.

Mid-engine cars have the engine between the axels like the Fiero and the new Corvettes.

Front engine cars have the engine over or in front of the front axel.

Some may say that the new Corvette is front engine but I've read that it could be considered mid-engine since the engine is between the axels.

Anyway, Fieros are definately nid-engine cars.