Hey guys,

You may have noticed my post in the mall as I'm selling my wife's 88 GT. However, she replaced that car with a 91 MR2 Turbo (which has an engine tagged as the 3SGTE). That car is sooo damn fast and that engine produces 200hp/200ft lbs STOCK. And for about 300 bucks it will push 250hp. Lets just say that my friend totally killed a ~90's mustang 5.0 in that car with little effort.

I would be VERY interersted to know how hard it would be to get that engine in a Fiero? I'm currently doing a 3800 SC engine conversion (I have the engine) but if this is possible, I may give it a try. Any ideas??

Jeremy
AIM: triksterut
YIM: triksterut
triksterut@aol.com

bare in mind that it would NOT be smog legal

Why wouldnt it be smog legal? You would have to keep the same emmision components wouldnt you? Its smog legal in the MR2. What would change so drastically?

Grey Area - as referred to by a C.A.R.B. - a different make car cannot have a different make engine ( i.e. chevy truck cannot have a ford engine and vice versa )

You'd have to check with your state laws to know whether it's illegal or not. The laws very from state to state, California being the biggest b!tches of them all about it. Some states allow you to do any swap as long as you use an engine newer than what's coming out of it. It all depends on the state, again, so contact your DMV and find out how to get a copy of the laws.

Bryce
88 GT

Why would you drop you're supercharged 3800 for a 4cyl turbo engine? Not only will you pay up the a$$ for a good engine/tranny, but you'd better be an ASE master technician if you plan to pull it off. Yeah, it would be quick, but so will a SC 3800! If you're bent on turbo power, throw a Design One turbo kit on your Fiero and you'll be hauling a$$.

My last toy before the Fiero was an Eagle Talon. The 2.0 turbo in those cars can easily put out 400hp with bolt on mods, so I was considering swapping one of those into the Fiero. There are so many good engines to choose from though, why bother re-inventing the wheel. When you are done with your sc swap, a proven combination, your Fiero will have no problem handling the MR2. Modifying the 3Sgte for 250-280hp is relatively easy. Going to 300hp or more will take substantial mods, as the stock engine is not strong enough to reliably make that kind of power. The other consideration is the cost of mods for that engine. You will be much better off with the 3.8 sc.

"My last toy before the Fiero was an Eagle Talon. The 2.0 turbo in those cars can easily put out 400hp with bolt on mods"??????????????????????????????????????????????????? Are you serious about this? I never heard of these cars getting anywhere near that. As a matter of fact I have always looked at them as crap.

It's true. 12 sec Talon/Eclipes are all over the place. 11 second street driven examples are also not uncommon. "Free" mods and a decent exhaust will put them in the high 13's.

That is true. I used to look at the riced out / turbo 4cyl with disdain Until I drove a few and looked at the after market for those things. If you get a nice turbo'd 4cyl, with about 1000 bucks in parts and work (almost completly bolt on) you're putting down about 400-450hp and that is just nuts. That is why I was looking to do the swap...however, I figured it would be a work of engineering just to get everything to bolt on and talk.

Jeremy
AIM: triksterut
YIM: triksterut
triksterut@aol.com

Mt friend just bought a 91 turbo MR2 as well. After a week the crank puked out a thrust washer... guess who gets to help fix it.

I must say it is a pain in the arse to work on those things. It better be fast when we get it all back together!

Wannabe, is Nitrous consider a bolt-on? I seriously doubt the car can almost double its stock output with "bolt-ons".

Plus their trannys were made of plastic, I can't see them lasting. My brother went through 3 before his 50k mile warranty (he knows how to drive), ended up getting the dealer to buy it back. It was the GST version.

Sorry.. but the Talons are very easy to tweak for killer HP...Upgrade turbo, IC, Injectors, Engine management , cat back exhaust, ACT Clutch. All are simple bolt ons. But it totals out to about $10,000 +/- un upgrades, not including labor and dyno tuning. We do them here all day long and the dyno says anywhere between 370-480 HP @ the wheels! and thats without NOs.

The MR2 GenII is the same to do. Bottom end can handle up to 370Hp, but I recommend a fresh rebuild if you sre going to do this.

My GenIII Rx7 pushed 450 on the dyno and was my daily driver. albeit a gas guzzling pig.

BTW, none of these cars are tuned for reliability, they are weekend warriors that get alot of money thrown at them.

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86 SE V6 Auto Turbo Going 3.4 OHV "Red Oktober"
86 2M4 5sp (Beater) "Blackie"
87 GT "Blue Flame"

You guys are funny, this sounds just like the crap we always hear about Fieros

The Toyota engine would not be trivial to swap, a huge ammount of fabrication will need to be done. Basically if you have to ask, the answer is likely that it's too much for you...

There are several 4-cam engines from GM that are really quite good, on par or better than, the MR2 MKII engine. (which is a rather amazing motor in it's own right, it's actually a 'celica' rally car motor.... and is very very strong.)

They are Quad-4, 3.4TDC/DOHC V6, and the Northstar V8.

Your call as to what kind of personality you want from your car, personally I don't really feel you can go wrong with any of these engines (inc the Toyota) it's just a question of logistics, money, and most of all, what YOU want to drive!!!

Enjoy!
Ben.

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Ben Cannon
88 Formula, T-top Metalic Red
88 Formula, Silver
87 Coupe, Metalic Red
"Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives"
-Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"

Im sorry guys but GM didnt make any engine in its class thats even remotely close to being as strong and reliable as the 3SGTE. GM only made 1 decent engine that can hold boost stock reliably.and its the 4.3 ltr Syclone/Typhoon engine.

[This message has been edited by Luni420 (edited 09-22-2001).]

Are we forgetting the Grand National, Turbo Sunbird, etc....

I kinda forgot about those. The turbo sunbird wasnt that quick anyway. I dunno. It just seems that most domestics that are turbos just arent as powerful/reliable as their japanese counterparts.

In case you're wondering about the 4G63 (2.0L DSM turbo engine) engine in a Fiero, take a look:

Also visit http://www.buschurracing.com Mid 9's out of a 4 cylinder turbo.

[This message has been edited by summerjim (edited 09-22-2001).]

Is it me or is that Mitsu motor in 180 degrees the wrong way? I could be wrong.

Jim
87 GT T-TOP V8
87 GT

Hey Summerjim, do you know more info on that DSM swap? Id imagine the 3SGTE would be very similiar to that engine. Id rather have the Toyota engine due to reliablity issues but if I had to, Id settle for the DSM.

The swap is still in progress. It's a friend's project that he's been working on for a while. I'm helping where I can.

It's by no means done or even running yet. There's still a lot of work left to do.

The engine is 180 degress to what everyone's used to. The transmission is on the PASSENGER side. It uses a DSM FWD tranny.

As far as "settling" for the DSM engine over the Toyota engine, I think you'd be better off with the DSM engine. More of them available, more reliable, easier to get more power out of, and a lot of modifications available.

Ok Ill agree with you on the more are available and more parts available, but they are in no way "more reliable" than the 3SGTE, and they require more internal work to make reliable hp. The thing with the DSMs is they have good stuff but to get optimum, you have to swap stuff from gen to gen. For example: If you have a 1st gen DSM motor you want to bolt on a 2nd gen DSM head on and a 2nd gen blow off valve. If you have a 2nd gen motor, you will eventually suffer from "crankwalk" if modding too extreme due to crankshaft journals getting rubbed to extremes causing the crankshaft to wear making it wobble and lose balance. Thats why Id rather have a 3SGTE.

No offense, but I don't think you know enough about the 4G63. I'm not expert by any means, but I can tell you for a fact that you don't need to bolt a 2G head onto a 1G block. The 1G 4G63 engine can handle 400 horsepower with NO INTERNAL MODS. (read Buschur Racing's page, he confirms this)

Ask any junk-man what he sees more of, dead 4G63s or 3SGTEs. Even better, ask Bob Parker. He sees 3SGTEs and says every one he sees is bad.

Besides, other than an MR2 turbo or Celica All-Trac, where can you get 3SGTEs? Lots more pre-95 DSMs than Turbo MR2s or All-Tracs.

Don't get me wrong man, I love the MR2 turbo. I think it's an awesome car and fun to drive, but I'd put my money any day on a 4G63.

As you stated, some years are prone to crankwalk. Those are the 7-bolt cranks. I'm told 6-bolt cranks don't seem to have that problem.

The 1st gen DSM engine is not harder to get power out of, in fact it's easier. The heads have larger ports and the blow off valve is better. Either way, 1g dsm engine with "free" mods would easily see a Fiero into the mid to low 13's . Hats off to that fellow for doing what seemed like a natural, if not too practical swap. I love turbos (I've owned 3 turbocharged cars and still have one as my daily driver), but with two great v8 engines to choose from for the Fiero, that'll be my choice for sure.

What about the Dodge Daytona shelby Z? Those dodge turbos were stong as hell and handle monster boost. The 2nd generation turbos were big but strong.

Well see. We have to see if the "guinea pig" gets sold or not. This conversion is a long way in the making, even if it does happen. We arent sure at all.

quote Originally posted by RedOktober: Sorry.. but the Talons are very easy to tweak for killer HP...Upgrade turbo, IC, Injectors, Engine management , cat back exhaust, ACT Clutch. All are simple bolt ons. But it totals out to about $10,000 +/- un upgrades, not including labor and dyno tuning. We do them here all day long and the dyno says anywhere between 370-480 HP @ the wheels! and thats without NOs.

$10,000!?!? Bolt on mods or not... if someone says to me "easily make 400 hp with bold on mods" i'm thinking like far less than $2000 let alone 10! Holy ****, well i can see any car putting out double stock power with bolt on mods if you are gonna spend $10,000 on bolt on mods.

Not knocking the dsms... ****in great cars with unbeilveable engines and potential

for 10K in a DSM you would be closer to 600 hp and the wheels. I'll tell you one thing..... I wish I owned that car!

What about a Pontiac SD? They can put out close to 400hp without the turbo or NOS. It would be a hell of alot easier swap too. You can buy a complete race engine for <$6000 or build a new one from KRP for about $5000. Stroke it to 3.0l and put on a good turbo setup, 400hp should not be a problem, even with the pushrod heads! By the time you figure in the huge amount of engineering and extra cost to install the ricer motors you may be ahead to just drop in the SD. BTW, there are still tons of parts available for this engine.

Erik-

You realize that DSMs are put together in the USA right....

It may be built here,but it's still a Japanese motor/car.

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85 GT Turbo intercooled

[This message has been edited by Mr.Frosty (edited 11-08-2001).]

Why not just drive the wife's MR2 once in a while and keep your Fiero the way it was ment to be....American! It's the equivilent of trying to stick a Harley V-Twin in my in-line-four Honda frame. Why not just go buy a Harley if that's what you want? Besides, unless you have a mechanical engineering degree and a lot of creative genius, you'll play heck trying to put that rice cake in your good car. Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me

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White '85 4cyl coupe
Black '86 v-6 SE
'81 CB900F Super Sport

lets see...
put a harley motor into a sport bike.. we get a Buell
put a ford big block into an A/C .. we get a Cobra
put a ford small block into an Italian car.. we get a Pantera
put a turbo Talon motor into a Fiero ...hmmm???

Man I wish I had more money.

Hulk, I agree! I had a omni glh turbo that I rebuilt the motor and I could beat the hell out of that thing and it would just laugh at me and say "is that all you got?" there are mods you can do to that motor to make it run like a raped ape..oh I'm talking about the 2.2 turbo w/the garret t03 turbo(turbo 1)and the getrag 5sp(stock from the factory)

some of you guys have been misinformed. is the 4g63 a killer motor that is real easy to mod? sure is. I just recently sold my 2nd DSM (90 eagle talon TSi AWD)to most likely get a fiero (87 gt fastback). i had about $300 into it, and i could easily have gotten low 13's out of it. i had one run with it at the track, which was my first one ever, and i got a 14.3 missing 3rd and shutting down before the line. A well known "DSM guy" around here still has his stock turbo on it, and is in the low 12's. 600hp for cheap? no way. like most cars, you can get to a certain point performace wise relativly cheaply. u can get an easy 280hp out of a 4g63 for a few hundred bucks, but after that, its big money. my friend has maybe 8g's into his 91 GSX, and he just put down about 330 to the wheels. it still needs a little tuning, but u get the idea.

and btw: the fastest unibody 4 cylinder in the world is a talon. 8.87 i believe.

and to those of you who say u have to swap around things from a 2nd gen, the 1st gen's were MUCH stronger. better motors, bigger stock turbo's, better head. only thing thats better would be the exhaust manifold, because it flows better stock then a heavily ported 1st gen manifold.

sorry for the long post, i hope to be here more in the future