So what car is this upgrade based on?

GA, Beretta? Anyone that's done this wish they hadn't?

Problems with it?

Or is it fine?

I've just been reading Ogre's article on brake upgrades since I'm having probs with my rear brakes I was on his site so now I'm wondering about the "Upgrade Kit" from the Fiero store that I have on my car. I haven't had any problems with it in the two weeks I've had it, it's done well, stopped the car nicely, but if it's dangerous I should do something about it. Yes, no?

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Adam Sparks

I'm not sure what the upgrade is based on but it installs easy and is a BIG improvement to the stock system. I'm a novice, but was able to get it on in less than a day.

I originally only replaced my stock system because one of my calipers froze but would do this again even if the stock system was working fine.

One thing to watch out for is with the stock suspension the car would bottom out on hard stops after the upgrade.

I'm not a huge fan of the Grand Am upgrades. There are people who have removed the upgrade for diferant reasons. I'll leave it to them to respond.

The front axle only upgrade is reasonably safe....

There are issues but there are ways to deal with most of them. I think once some details are worked out this can be done much better than people are presently setting it up. I'm still working on this.

With the front axle upgrade, the issue several of us are concerned with is the fit and centering of the rotor. Allot of that issue can be cured by finding a Slightly different rotor. (The new rotor would have a shorter "hat" section. That would move it away from the bracket and allow better machine work on the hub.)

The one I have big problems with is the 4 wheel Grand Am setup. As published and installed in most cars, the 4 wheel upgrade can never be made safe or street legal.

quote Originally posted by theogre: I'm not a huge fan of the Grand Am upgrades. There are people who have removed the upgrade for diferant reasons. I'll leave it to them to respond. The front axle only upgrade is reasonably safe.... There are issues but there are ways to deal with most of them. I think once some details are worked out this can be done much better than people are presently setting it up. I'm still working on this. With the front axle upgrade, the issue several of us are concerned with is the fit and centering of the rotor. Allot of that issue can be cured by finding a Slightly different rotor. (The new rotor would have a shorter "hat" section. That would move it away from the bracket and allow better machine work on the hub.) The one I have big problems with is the 4 wheel Grand Am setup. As published and installed in most cars, the 4 wheel upgrade can never be made safe or street legal.

ogre,
Thanks for the clarification. I only have the front disks, rear is stock and hanging up right now. I think I have the e-brake cable pulled out far enough now that it won't engage the e-brake. I need to replace the e-brake cables I'm surmising.

I'm think I'll try your suggestion of swapping the front and rear brake lines coming out of the MC. I just looked at it and it looks doable. I bent brake lines for my 62 CJ5 so I should be able to handle that for the Fiero.

Thanks again ogre, like many others in this forum I respect your advice and information greatly.

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Adam Sparks

quote Originally posted by sparks: I only have the front disks, rear is stock and hanging up right now. I think I have the e-brake cable pulled out far enough now that it won't engage the e-brake. I need to replace the e-brake cables I'm surmising.

Could be a caliper is just sticking.
I've read many posts on this Forum from people who have had calipers stick, and burn up the pads and rotor or worse. Seems more common if the car has been parked for an extended period.

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Raydar - aka Steve

Black 88 Formula.
Red 88 Duke coupe. "The Project"
88 Formula parts car. "The Donor"

Nope, not the caliper, or doesn't seem to be. I replaced everything related to my brakes from the hard line to the wheels. New Earl's hoses, rebuilt calipers and new rotors. But I did nothing with the e-brake cables. They were a tad bit tight on either side even when adjusted all the way out. I used vice grips to pull them out and now everything seems fine, before the spring didn't have enough tension to pull the lever up. I am going to replace the cables before I try using the e-brake now. The P.O. had installed the adjuster so I couldn't adjust the right side all the way out. I fixed that, then I had a brain fart and didn't check the left side to see if the e-brake was releasing completely until it was too late.

I do think I toasted a rear hub from the heat of the pads dragging. I'm going to have the rotor checked at a machine shop to be sure that it's fine and not warped, but the LR doesn't spin as freely as the RR. I replaced the RR hub on Sunday. Didn't do the left due to time constraints, maybe a good thing.

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Adam Sparks

[This message has been edited by sparks (edited 08-01-2001).]

disconnect the brake cables from the arms at the wheels. just let the end drop into the spring. this will tell you if the ebrake is part of the problem.

As I stated in the top of the brake article I haven't fully tested everything... I simply don't have the time/money/etc and won't for some time. The MC outlet swap should work but just in case the rears use more volume than I think.....

DO NOT destroy the OE brake lines up at the MC.

Get some spare parts from another vehicle. S10 blazer/truck looked like a good source. Use those lines, or the nuts from them, to make lines to reverse the MC outlets. This way if the thing doesn't work right you can go back.

I'm one of the ones Ogre was talking about. I had the GA job for my front axles and after about 6mo's noticed a loud "clunk" type noise coming from the front end on corners and bumps. Checked everything and finally found that the bearings were going allowing the new hub to wander. Switched back to stock and haven't had a problem yet with regular driving.
There are some real performance kits out there but you are looking at a 2k+ price tag and you would need to upgrade to at least a 16" wheel.

quote Originally posted by theogre: disconnect the brake cables from the arms at the wheels. just let the end drop into the spring. this will tell you if the ebrake is part of the problem. As I stated in the top of the brake article I haven't fully tested everything... I simply don't have the time/money/etc and won't for some time. The MC outlet swap should work but just in case the rears use more volume than I think..... DO NOT destroy the OE brake lines up at the MC. Get some spare parts from another vehicle. S10 blazer/truck looked like a good source. Use those lines, or the nuts from them, to make lines to reverse the MC outlets. This way if the thing doesn't work right you can go back.

ogre
I did disconnect the e-brake and just let it hang. That did the trick, it didn't grab. Then I went back and pulled the cable out farther with vice-grips. I now have plenty of slack in my cable. I have time to fix it right before I drive it. We have 5 vehicles and only two drivers.

As for the brake lines, yes, I've learned the hard way on other things not to get rid of your old OEM parts. Thanks for the advice.

Uaana What do you think caused the problems? The machining process to make the hub? Was yours a Fiero Store kit or one that you put together had a machine shop do work on for you?

thanks,
Adam

Uaana's problem sounds like improperly installed bearings but an out of balance condition will also cause bearing failure. Balance problems have been reported with the GA parts on the front. Without examining the hardware very carefully there's no way to be 100% sure which one it was. It may even have been a combination of both.

At the very least.... The GA rotor needs a collar for the center. Such a collar isn't hard to make. Almost any Steel of the required thickness could be formed to do it. Wouln't take much to turn them out on a lathe if need be.

If you form one, make it spring tight on the hub. if you turn one, cut it just snug enough so that it has to be driven on. That or epoxy the thing in place. Anything to make it stay put.

Unless the rotor hat is being cut inside, the center hole is the only reliable centering point on a rotor. (There's no way I'd cut into the hat, but I expect some have.)

That I'm aware of, Fiero Store followed the same web directions as most every one else doing this. If that's true then their kit would need the centering collar as well.

After you do the brake line switch, email me and let me know how it worked. I've been wanting to test this w/o doing the wheel upgrades just to see how the rear calipers accept it. I'm hoping by the end of summer I'll be able to mess with non critical projects again.

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 08-02-2001).]