Need some diagnostic suggestions. 88 Formula V6, won't start. Car will start to fire, then die as soon as you release the key. It's apparently getting spark, fuel pressure is 45psi, replaced cap, rotor, ignition module, coil, fuel filter. If you spray some starting fluid into the intake, it will fire. What's next on the diagnostic list?

BTW, when car died, it was sitting overnight. Started immediately, the when I started to back up, it stalled, and wouldn't restart.

Park on a slope?

We tried that. It won't even start on a slope.

Not on a slope, not with a rope,
Not with a key, for him *or* me,
Not with some Spam, not worth a damn,
It will not start, Damn Sam I am...

maybe something to do with the fuel pump.. does it keep pressure? dont take my word on it..i hate the diag part of workin on cars. but worth a shot i guess.

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JOEJOE Aol:KissMySSFiero

88FORMULA
KissMySSFiero@netzero.net

"There's a fine line between love and beer"

Maybe the cold start injector quit working.

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86 SE Fiero converted to GT (Buick Turbo V6 transplant in progress)

78 Malibu 3.8L Turbo Buick
TURBO WONDER
Best 8th: 1.548, 6.62@106.32 3450lb
TE-70 3 bolt, Ported Stock Iron Heads and Intake
2.5 stock intercoolers
Vernon Swindell, Jr.

Well, it appears to be holding pressure. And it's getting a full 45psi when cranking, so that's good. Don't know about the cold start injector. I would think it would still start, but run like crap. It just won't start. I'm almost starting to suspect jumped timing, but I want to exhaust everything else, first. Got a friend of mine who's a mechanic coming over on Sun. to take a look. Wish me luck, and please, let me know if you have any ideas.

cap? check
rotor? check
control module? check
coil? check
fuel filter? check
vacuum lines?
wires?
plugs?
altenator?
fuse box?
membrain?
parking brake release?
back up light switch?
your drivers license?
washer fluid levels?

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hoop
Red '86 GT
KYB's, Eibach's,
Poly Bushings

Forgot tire pressure...

check your throttle postioning sensor, and your idle control motor on the throttle body.
the Idle control motor can get pretty gummed up try cleaning it with carb cleaner. also
even though you get pressure when your engine cranks your fuel pump can be bad. I had that problem on a 95 tahoe it would hold pressure for about 15 to 20 seconds. just long enuff for the car to start and then you would put it in gear and it would die. It took about 3 days and about $200.00 in sensors before we figured out that the fuel pump couldnt hold its pressure. Hope this helps

quote Originally posted by bHooper: cap? check rotor? check control module? check coil? check fuel filter? check vacuum lines? wires? plugs? altenator? fuse box? membrain? parking brake release? back up light switch? your drivers license? washer fluid levels?

Vacuum lines, check - with the exception of a brokekn EGR tube. But the car's been running like that for a few weeks.
Wires - again, no change, but the car's been running with them.
Plugs - Check.
Alternator - Check - at least the guage shows about 14 V when running.
Fuse Box - Check -Visually verified all fuses.
Membrane - WTF?
Parking brake release - funny
Backup light switch - check - just cuz I checked it when I did the clutch.
Driver's Liscense - a bit warm lately.
Washer fluid levels - THAT MUST BE IT!!

Also, we tried swapping out the ECM from another car. No change. It appears - assuming the fuel pressure is good - that the injectors aren't firing, or possbily the car has jumped timing? Any other possibilities?

Did you check all the fuse links to the brain box?

Fuse links to the computer? I'm not aware of any. I checked all the fuses in the fuse block. What am I missing? Are there fusible links to the ECM?

Thanks in advance for any help, guys. (and gals!)

A grand total of 3 feed different points of the box.

Where are they? The only connections I saw to the ECM were the two bus plugs at the bottom of the ECM. Where are the fuse links located?

Link F. Red to Orange wire @ junction block in engine compartment.
Link G. Off starter solinoid rust to purple wire. (feeds cold start circut)
Link H. (must be the other I was thinking of) feeds the coil.

Some have an additional link in the harness just before leaving the engine compartment to the passenger compartment, but not all.

Turn signals work?

sorry i forgot about tire pressure!

also, check the tach fliter...Bob Englert just had a problem with his. it was creating some stumbling and sputtering.

also, it is possible for to buy a bad set of spark plug sires.

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hoop
Red '86 GT
KYB's, Eibach's,
Poly Bushings

If I remember correctly, the turn signlas to work, but I'll double check. Thanks for the fuse link info. I'll try to check that tonight.

Hoop, the tire pressure's ok. I just added new tire filters and muffler bearings, so the sunroof shouldn't be the problem.

thats good to know that your muffler bearings are in good shape.

what about the velcro, on the back of hte floor mats? that could be creating a static charge that is interfearing with the control module?

also, what shape is the flux capasitor in?

in all seriousness, though, check the tach filter. you may want to email Bob about this.

good luck!
hoop

Hoop... it's not stumbling or sputtering, 'cause won't start, period.

It ain't stumblin'.. it fell down and can't get up...

Where's a First Alert bracelet when you need one!

you may have a clogged fuel line or injectors
possibly a valve problem

Ignition Module bad causing no injector pulse.

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86 SE Fiero converted to GT (Buick Turbo V6 transplant in progress)

78 Malibu 3.8L Turbo Buick
TURBO WONDER
Best 8th: 1.548, 6.62@106.32 3450lb
TE-70 3 bolt, Ported Stock Iron Heads and Intake
2.5 stock intercoolers
Vernon Swindell, Jr.

Ok, we tried my ECM in LZeitgeist's Formula. The ECM is good; however, the Check Engine light isn't coming on. (it does come on in his car when you start the engine)
I'm thinking the ECM is not getting power. Going through the fusible links and fuses when I get some more daylight and a bit warmer temps. Thanks for the ignition module tip, but we've already swapped that out with an allegedly good one. We'll test it in a good car probably tomorrow. The connectors on the module looked pretty nasty, so it may not be getting a good connection (we did try to clean them up). Thanks for all the help people, keep the ideas coming!!

And for some incentive, I'll buy whomever comes up with the correct problem first a beer.

"Alcohol. The cause of and solution to all of life's problems." -Homer Simpson

On the other side, make sure that your S.E. light is a good bulb. The S.O.B. might be toast!
Start over.

ooo.. ooo.... i know what the problem is!! it just hit me.... are ya ready?.... i have the answer... its the ....

CAR!!!! the car is the problem.

YES!! I win the beer!

Yea, ME!

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hoop
Red '86 GT
KYB's, Eibach's,
Poly Bushings

Yea, I thought about the bulb going. It was working recently, but it could have gone out. I'll just have to pull it to check. Does anyone know what terminals on the ECM plug should have voltage? I could check them with a VOM to make sure the ECM is getting power. I'm really thinking the ECM isn't getting power, just gotta figure out why.

Thanks, Hoop. No, you don't win the beer.

Are all the fuse links at the junction block next to the battery? I've got the wiring diagrams in the Haynes manual, but it doesn't say anything about location. Also, it could be a pinched or broken wire from when I dropped the cradle to do my clutch, but the car ran for a week without so much as a hiccup after the swap.

Thanks for the help, people. I'm really getting frustrated here, and knowing there's others out there trying to help me figure this out really does help.

I know that Jaygee79's 84 SE is a 4 banger, but It was doing the same thing. No check engine light and all. It was a fusible link near the BATT. I know that 84 is different but I bet it is a fusible link. I didn't see any broke. I had to do it with a test light.

Hope this helps ya.

P.S. Sam Adams

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Josh

My pics

That may be it. All my fuse links look ok on the outside (a couple have chaffed insulation, but no signed of burning and it's not chaffed all the way through). Gonna get a test light and check it out.

Keep your fingers and toes crossed people! The twins will ride again! (i hope)

If not, can I have your car for parts?

Sure! Except for the engine vent wing nuts.

... can i have those ??

LOL!!!!!

Nah, I've got plans for those wing nuts. Their going to be the donor for a new Fiero I'll be building to replace this one if it doesn't get fixed soon. I'll just take the car off the wing nuts and replace it.

drum roll please.....

keep your fingers crossed people. going after the fuse links tonight.....

Did you check the one at the starter?
It's there you know.

Well, I didn't check the link at the starter, but since the car turns over fine, I would suspect it's ok. The ECM is apparently not getting power, cuz there's no check engine light (the bulb tests good). I wouldn't think the starter circuit would affect that. What do you think?

So, Indy, I'm re-reading your post about the fuse links. 1 at the junction block, 1 at the starter, and 1 at the coil? I checked 5 at the junction block, but no others. I'll try to get the other two tomorrow. Any other ideas, people?