Thanks for the info KRM Fiero I think the 4.5 cadillac swap is the ideal one for a low budget project.it bolts right up to the stock tranny and needs no kit or such as other swaps.I am not looking a dragster but a little more power than the 2.8 and this motor from experience if kept from over heating will run forever also a buddy of mine has a tow yard with one of this motor in a 93 caddy that I will get very cheap after which I will put a new oil pump and some crankshaft bearings.

Aren't there some links or databases to help find a suitable Caddy engine, like the 4.9?
I don't want to spend a lot of time on the phone calling all over the place.

These motors are all over the place in most junk yards in te cadillac seville,deville any where from 85 to 93,the earlier ones are the 4.1 and 4.5 and thereafter 4.9 in 93 they are all the same just the bore is bigger in in the 4.5 and the 4.9.All these cars are front wheel drive and are mounted crossways except the 4.1 which was mounted straight but still a front wheel drive ,for how to do the complete conversion go to http//members.fortunecity.com/bubbajoexx/ and this site is the bomb also this engine bolts right up.

Welcome, I cant wait until i get mine done try your hardest to find the 4.9, i will be using a 4.5, the 4.1 is only 135hp

Make sure the engine is out of a FWD Caddy

Kyle

The 4.1 was used both longitudinally with the TH325 and transversly with the TH440.

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Jon Lagler
'87 GT
4.9 liter V8 Testarossa Spyder (under construction)

So what are the 4.5 and 4.9 Caddy's rated at? If it's less than 200hp, why bother?

Here's yet another lesson... The difference between horsepower and torque. Yes, the 4.9 is only rated at a little over of 210 hp but, it has 275 ft-lbs of torque! Ok, here goes... simply put, horsepower is a rating of how fast (speed) you want to go, torque is a measure of how quickly you want to get to that speed.

If you look at the math, horsepower is simply a mathimatical product of the engine's torque and RPMs. Tyically, if you have high torque numbers and modest or low horspower numbers, it is usually an indication that the motor is NOT a high RPM motor and mkes most of it power just off idle. The flip side of that is if a motor makes high horsepower but has modest to low torque numbers, the motor makes power in the high RPMs.

For the street -- stop light to stop light-- torque rules. For the highway, horsepower rules. Remember, I'm talking about two ends of the spectrum. There is lots of area in the middle for combinations of both.

So to answer your original question, "why bother". How about, cheap to install (I estimate $1500 or less), the car will be quick off the line, the motor weights the same as the cast iron 2.8 so your handling is still good, it bolts to your existing automatic transmission with little to no modifications. And, did I mention it's CHEAP!

I'm sold... now, if I can just come up with $1500!!! and a good project car (Cosmo where are you?!?!? )

Roy

Can you use the manual tranny for this swap? Does the engine look as crammed in there as a SBC does (meaning will I have to drop the cradle to change front spark plugs)?

I'm thinking 4.9 turbo...

Hey guys, since I have heard about this swap recently I decided to research what horsepower ratings were available.

In 1991 and 1992 VIN "B" 4.9 Engine was rated at 200HP @4100 RPM and 275 ft lbs of torque. This engine, according to the book was found in the Deville, Fleetwood, Eldorado, and Seville

In 1989 90 91 and 92 VIN "8" 4.5 Engine was rated also at 200HP @ 4400 RPM and 270 ft lbs of torque. This is only available in the Allante.

There were two 4.5 liter engines listed, the other being a VIN "5" 4.5 liter.

The ratings for the VIN "5" 4.5 are as follows:
155 HP @ 4000 RPM and 240 ft lbs @ 2800 RPM in 1988 and 1989

180 HP @ 4300 RPM and 245 ft lbs @ 3000 RPM in 1990

As far as the other power ratings for the engines, I don't remeber off hand, but could look back in the good old reliable Chiltons book to find out It only covers 1988 through 1992 GM cars.

I was wondering if anyone knew if the Automatic trans in these cars are a direct bolt up in the Fiero.

I hope this helps
Eric

[This message has been edited by Eric_PA (edited 03-15-2001).]

Eric,

Check out BubbaJoes web site (listed above). He's done us all a GREAT service with all the work and info he has put into his site. I believe the only modification you MAY need to make to bolt to a TH125 is to use an 88 flex plate (neutral balanced). A fles plate off of a 3.1 or 3.4 will work as well.

Roy

To do a swap with a manual trannsmition you have to modify the Flywheel (not that hard)

Kyle

mrfixit58, that was a good lesson! I'll take a 200 hp v8 over a 200 hp v6 any day! And this v8 weighs less and costs less than a 3800.

The 4.9 uses a neutrally ballanced flywheel with 8 holes. The 4.1 uses 6 holes and some imballance. Not sure about the 4.5. If going automatic, the fiero or Cad trans will work. Cad trans is a 4T60 up until 1990 and 4T60E for the '91+ 4.9s. They require very little effort to install.

The 200 horse 4.5 Allante engine will be hard to find. kinda rare.

These cadillac engines are w-i-d-e across the top. The hood hinge bracket needs to be trimmed for valve cover clearance.

Good info, Eric_PA!
Roy, my "new" '86 black GT is getting the Caddy engine and tranny. Now the search for a donor begins!
I think I'll try and find a whole car, that way I'll have all the parts I need...
C02M0

What kind of modifications can be made to boost horsepower on these engines.

quote Originally posted by zeusrekning: What kind of modifications can be made to boost horsepower on these engines.

Only things i have found are performance ignitions, I havent even found places that sell bigger pistons or anything

Does anyone know if the external dimensions of the 4T60 trans on the caddy is the same as the automatic in the Fiero? With such a swap I would rather leave my GT an automatic. It would be nice to stick with the stock tranny since I went through the trouble to get a rebuilt 3.33 ratio trans and put in a shift kit. I'm just wondering if the computer to the caddy would control the lock out selonoid properly. I don't want to have to put in a toggle switch. But then again a 4 speed would be nice as long as the mounts would work.

quote Originally posted by zeusrekning: What kind of modifications can be made to boost horsepower on these engines.

This place claims to be able to rebuild the 4.9 for ~280 HP: http://www.angelfire.com/stars/mycaddy/asg.htm

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Will:
[B] This place claims to be able to rebuild the 4.9 for ~280 HP:

I did some serious looking into using either a 4.5 or 4.9, the initial cost and low tech of the install is attractive.

But all of these engines have a long history of leaking head gaskets. Water induced into the system when unwanted can be a problem, to say the least.

If you do go this route, better budget in a real good major overhaul, sooner or later.

David Breeze

Yeah, the early 4100s had head gasket problems, but that has been corrected with the 4.5 and 4.9 and the Goodwrench 4.1 replacement engines. The major problem with the 4.9 now is the valve springs. My dad had a 4100 with over 250,000 miles on it, never had any head gasket problems. It's like anything else, take care of it and it will run forever. But hey, as long as people think they are sh!tty engines, people like me who know better will get them for less!

Rockcrawler: Kinda like every GM engine made in 20 years.