Driving on the freeway last Friday, when my 1984 Fiero acted like it was running out of gas. I knew this wasn't the problem since I just got a 1/2 tank of gas. I got out and tested for spark, and there is. I tested for fuel, Didn't appear like It was getting any. So I had the car towed home. The next day I thought I might be changing the fuel pump or the fuel relay, just to be sure I listened for the fuel pump to come on, and it did. I decided to spray in some starting fluid thinking that I would hear it run for a few seconds anyway. The starting fluid made absolutely no affect. It just rotates with no attempt to start. I checked the fuses. they're all good. I checked the ECM, and no new codes. I tested the ignition module and it tested good. I'm about to lose patients with this? Can anyone suggest anything that I might not have tried? I should also ad that I just recently performed a tune-up (fuel & air filter,plugs,wires,cap & rotor).

[This message has been edited by Fiero Fanatic (edited 01-02-2001).]

If you have fire at the plugs and the fuel pump is pumping, my first thought in this weather would be that your fuel line is frozen! But even if that were the case, it should try to start on starter fluid. And the fuel line shouldn't freeze with you driving it down the road. My first thought would have been the module or crank sensor.

Can an 84 Fiero jump time, or even worse break a timing belt? Not sure what these cars have. That would be my next thought, although not a pleasant one.

Good luck!

The 84 Fiero has a distributor, so it doesn't have a crank sensor.

All 2.5L 4 cyl Fieros used a phenolic timing gear instead of a timing chain. The normal failure mode of the timing gear breaking would be a sudden and complete shutdown of the engine. To see if the timing gear is broken remove the oil filler cap on the valve cover and crank the car. If the rocker arms are moving up and down then your gear should be OK. I guess it might be possible to loose valve timing if a couple of teeth have broken but not enough to completely shear the gear.

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Bob
2 - 87 GT's
85 SE 4 cyl

My timing gear or chain should be in working order since I do have spark. The car just turn over and over and still nothing. How often do pick-up coils go bad? My fuel can't be frozen because it 50+ degrees out.

[This message has been edited by Fiero Fanatic (edited 01-02-2001).]

quote Originally posted by Fiero Fanatic: Just went outside to the dead car and took off the oil cap. When my assisant turned over the starter the rocker arm did'nt even budge. I got the timing sprocket blues.

Sorry to hear that... I was afraid that is what it was since you were getting fire and gas... If the car is not a daily driver I'd say go ahead and rebuild it and then you'll be ready for another 100k! Good luck!

Sorry to hear about your timing gear. This is a fairly inexpensive job as far as parts are concerned but expensive labor if you have someone do it. It is a lot of work. You will also need to remove the oil pan and clean out the pieces of the old gear when you replace it.

If you have the facilities it might be easier to drop the cradle and to the work.

There is a fairly detailed description of the work in the Online Service Guide on doing the replacement in the car. Go to http://surf.to/fiero_osg and search for Timing Gear Replacement under the Engine and Transmission section.

I would STRONGLY recommend that you use a Melling metal timing gear when you replace it. This way you will never need to do this repair again.

I had the original gear in my 85 SE replaced with the metal gear by Ed Parks at the Fiero Factory last September. I used the car for a lot of business trips and I didn't want to get stranded in the back woods of SC somewhere.

I suspect a lot of 4 cyl Fieros meet their end with this failure. All you 4 cyl owners with over 100K on their engines should seriously consider replacing the timing gear this spring IMO.

Good luck with the repair. Sorry it had to be this. :-(

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Bob
2 - 87 GT's
85 SE 4 cyl

Thanks for the info everyone. I do have my work cut out for me now. Anyone know any tips, suggestions or shortcuts on this procedure?

so if you're nearing 100 miles is it worth it to have the engine rebuilt and have the Melling timing gears put in before it goes out. Lot's of empty space around here, I don't want to get stranded either. But I was thinking if you're replacing the gear, most of the cost is labor, why not have the whole thing rebuilt at the same time? Is it worth it for a good running 4 cylinder just under 100,000? Or would it be better to just do the gears and let it go at that?

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Adam Sparks

Just to let everyone know my 84 Fiero has exactly 216,942 miles. The engine is ready for a second life with a rebuild. I probably should look a everything instead of just replacing the timing gear. So today I'm car shopping for a second car. Or would it a first car? If you have any car over 100,000+ Get a back-up car. It sure saves on walking everywhere .

Sounds like your 84 gave a lot of good miles. Sounds like it deserves a good rebuild.

The problem with the original plastic timing gears is that you have 0 warning of the problem before yo are stopped dead on the side of the road.

If you engine has about 100K and is otherwise running well, I don't think I would rebuild it unless you were seeing the beginnings of problems such as high oil useage or things beginning to sound funny. These engines can go a long time with reasonable care. I would suggest that you run a compression test to see how tight the engine is and then consider your options.

It seems to me that the ignition module and the timing gear are the items that tend to leave 4 cyl Fiero owners stranded the most.

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Bob
2 - 87 GT's
85 SE 4 cyl

Those timing gears are made of plastic? What was GM thinking? What brand of timing gear should I replace it with? Also I went to a wrecking yard and got 2 other ignition modules and had them tested. They both tested good. So with my original one that makes 3 good modules. I quess I'll be OK in that department for a while.

I wouldn't take apart a good running car to rebuild the motor. But if I had a major piece of work to do, then would think about the rebuild if I had excessive mileage. my 88 4 cylinder coupe has 126,000 on it and runs great, well not right now because it is too cold for me to go replace the module again and I have other cars to drive.

Fanatic, in your case, I think I would just replace the gears and get back on the road. If you have good tools and a good place to do it out of the weather you should be able to do it in a day or two. Spend your first $12 on a Haynes manual... Good luck.

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Melling and Coynes make replacement metal timing gears for the 84-86 4 cyl engines.

Unless you have done this type of engine work and have a good tools and shop or garage space, I am not sure you could get the job done in a couple of days. It is significant work to get the oil pan off and the intake removed and the cam out of the car so the new one can be pressed on by a machine shop.

I only say that because I know I couldn't do this in one day. When I had the job done at the Fiero Factory it is a 6-7 hour job and they have the tools and experience in this type of repair.

It is tough when you are relying on a car with 200k that has this type of failure.

Did you look over the link to the Online Service Guide where the procedure was detailed?

Again, best of luck...

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Bob
2 - 87 GT's
85 SE 4 cyl

[This message has been edited by Bob Englert (edited 01-05-2001).]

Do a complete rebuild. The plastic parts are all over your engine and need to be cleaned out. You will have to pull/disassemble the engine to do this. It's not worth the work to do the disassembly if you don't do a complete rebuild. The problem with rebuilding is the slow-down that occurs at the machine shop. If you know of a good running used duke you could swap. That would take about 2 days. You get what you pay for.
Sorry to hear about your situation. If you drive used iron you need a backup.

I already have the Haines and I'm preparing for the work on the car. I know it will take 2-3 days. I already had the oil pan off recently to replace the oil pump. Actually the oil shaft pin had snapped and the gear wouldn't crank the oil pump. I once had the cradle off and that was not a problem either. I'm wondering how many internal plastic gears I should be focusing on or just replace the timing gear?

The only plastic parts in the engine that I am aware of would be the bits of timing gear that should be floating around in the oil pan. Dropping the pan and cleaning out what's in there should be enough. I would put a new oil filter on when you fill it back up just to be safe.

I think a back issue of the FOCOA magazine some years ago had an article by Joe Wyman on timing gear replacement. I might be able to locate it and scan the pages if it would be helpful? LE me know and I will go look for it.

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Bob
2 - 87 GT's
85 SE 4 cyl

Any information at this point would be most helpful. Thanks Bob, I'll check back to see if you have it posted.

I'm ordering the timing gear today. But I'm not paying for it until I'm sure that's the problem. I seen metal shavings in my oil pan not plastic floating in it? Should I be further concerned about this discovery? The NAPA guy said there is 2 bearings in the set. What is he talking about?

[This message has been edited by Fiero Fanatic (edited 01-08-2001).]

Is it going to be absolutely necessary to remove the struts as part of replacing the timing gear...anyone?

IMHO I would try to buy something, anything to drive to avoid the "i've got to do anything to get this Fiero back on the road syndrom" which you're going to be experiencing soon.

The best solution for the fiero is an unhurried complete engine rebuild. Remember, if you're not a mechanic, don't have a garage and lots of different kinds of tools you're going to run into unexpected delays. Just my .02

Dave

86 GT

I have the tools and the time. I already have half the work already completed. My grandmother was gracious enough to loan me her car to get around. Tomorrow I'm going to pick up the timing gears

quote Originally posted by Fiero Fanatic: My back sure hurts. Can I use a ECM from an automatic in my 4-speed? Even if I switch the proms?

I think the ECMs are the same. I don't even think there is any difference in the prom. I don't believe the tranny is computer controlled in the auto or the 4 speed.

Maybe someone else will know for sure.

[This message has been edited by Songman (edited 01-12-2001).]

The Haynes manual says to install your original prom. Is there any difference in ECM's?

Anybody else have an idea about this?

I think they are the same...

[This message has been edited by Songman (edited 01-12-2001).]

Does anyone know how many timing gears there are? NAPA auto parts says there are 2 of them. One on the camshaft and ??? I'm confused, because the replacement and installation procedures in the Haynes and on the web say nothing about 2 of them.

I would assume the other one has to be on the crank. That is what links the cam and the crank together and make the whole thing work.

Too bad you are on the other end of the country. I went and visited with a guy here in Nashville that is putting a V8 in his Fiero and has a good running little 2.5 that he wants to sell....

Good luck with your car.

[This message has been edited by Songman (edited 01-12-2001).]

Yes, there are 2 gears. The one on the cam shaft is plastic. The one on the crank is metal, as I recall.

The Auto is prom controled to lock the torque converter. The proms are not interchangable.

You really need to have the block and head hot tanked and the oil galleys blown out. There's probably plastic in those passages.

It's false economy to skimp on a rebuild. Do it right and your motor will last. If you don't you'll get to do it over.

You have your work cut out for you. Since the timing gear is pressed on,you have to take the cam out. FUN!!! The link that was mentioned earlier is an excellent one. A few things different I found out. I didn't have to remove the starter. And instead of removing the calipers I removed the brake lines. The splitting block on the pass side needs to be removed to get the cam with gear in and out. Be very careful when putting on the gaskets for the timing cover...it is tricky. Also,if you are using your old hub,you need to get a sleeve or else it will chew up your seal and you get to replace that. i hope this helps. Good luck

What do you mean by splitting block? Big thanks to everyone for their advise on this difficult procedure.

That is where the brake lines are split to go to the right or left calipers. It's a brass block with 3 brake lines in it,on the pass side of the car.

Thanks ggarsk, that info helps. Webbee the Haynes manual says that when your replace your ECM, you need to install your original prom, unless your just replacing the prom in the old ECM. So my question is "Can you use an ECM from an automatic and install the prom from my 4 speed? And are all ECM's basically interchangeable?" Automatic to manual and vise-versa. I know the proms are not.

By the way...I only seen metal shavings in my oil pan. Did any Fiero come stock with a metal timing gear? Could my crank gear be only chewed up? The mystery continues...

As far as I know the Fiero never came stock with a metal timing gear. I doubt the crank gear is the problem since the phenolic gear will fail long before the crank gear is damaged.

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Bob
2 - 87 GT's
85 SE 4 cyl

I don't know if the ecm's are different. The proms are. Does anyone else know?