I just sent this to someone on the Fiero@egroups.com list. I thought I should post it here.

So far I have modified a neutral balance ('88 and later) V6 flywheel to fit the N* bolt pattern, and am in the process of replacing all loaded bearings in and removing the 1-2 bias spring from a Getrag. I will be using a Centerforce clutch. I have not yet determined exactly what radiator I will use. I wil probably use the Easterly chip until I can come up with a better solution.
I will be using the stock V6 front engine mount (or a bolt in replacement). I plan to drill vertical holes through the right cradle rail, and weld in tube inserts so that it will retain its strength. Bolts will go through these holes, securing a stock mount to the cradle rail. I will fabricate a bracket to either replace the stock N* timing cover and extend a foot down to pick up the mount, or I will fab a bracket that will pick up timing cover bolts and extend down to bolt on to the mount. I will cut the stock V6 mount bracket off the cradle (it interferes with the N* oil pan).
I will be slightly modifying the left cylinder head ( < five minutes w/ die grinder), and mounting the stock Cadillac serpentine idler to one of the PS pump mounts (PS pump is gone, of course). That way I don't have to buy a new idler (just change from smooth to grooved pulley), and I can use the stock N* alt in the stock location, and a modified Fiero A/C compressor in the stock Cadillac location. This set up lets me reuse almost all of the stock N* serpentine belt routing.
With a tiny bit of welding, the right bank exhaust manifold can be flipped upside down and used on the left side of the engine, where it points almost straight down. By switching two studs, the LH exhaust manifold can be used on the right bank. From there one needs only fabricate a new cross-under pipe to meet up with an exhaust system similar to the stock Fiero system, except in 3 inch pipe. The front of the oil pan may need to be modified to clear the exhaust.
I have not done a trial fit in the car, although all of this *should* fit.
The wiring harness is the most complicated part. But if you know wiring, you should be able to do it. (I haven't done it yet, so can not offer any advice.)

Will

>
>You posted on pennocks that you are in the process of a Northstar engine
>install? What have you bought done so far? Are you fabricateing the mounts
>your self?
>I would appreciate any info you could give!
>
>
>Thanks Mike Schlutter
>

Watch it Will, these boys will hang you for saying things like that! Northstar easy hogwash! "String him up!" I've come to know the forum as Pennocks anti-Northstar forum!

LOL J/K everyone!

between me and Seanh I've read at least 50+ post on why not to do this swap! Unfortuneately, none of them has had any first hand experience with the swap.
I've been left to feel like a black sheep here in Northstar pergatory!
Northstar should be said in hushed tones be warnned!
I e-mailed you! Again thankyou for the information!

Mike

no negatives from me. i want to hear any thing about any swap. i figure if i get the chance i'll swap in whatever engine comes my way. if you can convince me that a yugo engine is the way to go i want some info on it. you can't know too much.

I've got nothing against people putting whatever kind of engine they want into they're car. I am against high school kids putting out a line of bullshit. If someone needs to go on about the worlds only existing twin turbo 2.8 that runs 12 second quarter miles while belching smoke, well speed.com has a nice little liars forum for that. I'd prefer people like Will who are actually doing it, and have some facts to back up their talk.

------------------
Loud Pipes Save Lives!

Hey Will,
What kind of differences in balancing
is required for the v6 flywheel?
I had to use the 4 cyl flywheel for my
smallblock chevy, The v6 one didn't have
enough surface to put the hole pattern in for
the crank.

Ray

I hope it's as easy as you plan.

I'm still considering my options for an engine swap, so if this is as easy as you say the N* moves up on the list.

What Northstar is it? (year,car,hp rating)
How much did you get it for?
What grinding do you have to do to the head?

Anyone who proves Design One is ripping people off is OK in my book.

rprevo:

The Cadillac requires a neutral balance flywheel/flexplate. The '87 and earlier V6's use weighted flywheels. '88 and later V6's use neutral balance flywheels.
I ran into the same problem. The face with the V6 bolt circle wasn't as large as the N* bolt circle. I havd it faced on a grinder so that the small shoulder was removed, opening up a larger face to drill the new bolt circle. I will grind a spacer to make up for the lost thickness.
Also, the N* pilot shoulder on the crank is not as large as the locating hole in the V6 flywheel. A concentric ring had to be made up to center the flyhweel properly.
I had Stainless steel plugs made up to have a 0.001" press fit into the V6 bolt circle holes, effectively removing that bolt circle.

Will,
When I plugged my flywheel I used 1/2 20
soft screws and 10-32 set screws to prevent
the plugs from backing out.
Does your old plugged hole pattern in any
way interfere with the new holes.
With .001 press fit are you worried about
them falling out when you drill the
new holes, I couldn't get around drilling
into some of the old holes.

Two of the holes overlap slightly. The plugs will be fine. There is no force pushing them out, only vibration. They are also going to be under the edges of the heads of the flywheel bolts.
The press fit might also be more than 0.001. I don't remember right off.

I'm starting to become concerned about this thread. I don't want to offend anyone and truly admire those who have done some of these home brew engine swaps. However, my background is as a Q.A. Manager in the Commercial Aircraft industry and a couple of resent comments have me troubled. So forgive me if I try to be of some help.

At least 2 of the participants in this discussion have apparently taken original Fiero Flywheels/Flex Plates and modified them to fit certain other engines. I've read of changing center hole sizes, plugging and redrilling holes, drilling holes that intersect previously plugged holes etc.. All this would be in an effort to make a pre-existing Flex Plate/FW fit a new application.

I would ask these two people and others that would emulate them to consider wether they would really want that FlexPlate/FW spinning 5 or 6,000 RPM behind their head. A few areas of my concern would be best expressed by the following questions we should each ask ourselves:
1) Are you aware that a FlexPlate is made out of a tempered material? Kind of like spring steel,... spring??? Flexplate??? Think about it, why is a Flexplate called a Flexplate? Does it Flex? .... You better believe it does.
2) Did you remember that drilling holes into tempered material leaves you very vulnerable to "Stress Risers" around the perimeter of the hole?
3) Did you know that Stress Risers are a sure thing anyplace a newly drilled hole intersects an original hole that was put in before the tempering of the material?
4) Did you know that cracks in the material are a natural result of stress risers?
5) In #1 above, we realized that a Flexplate is ment to Flex. Can you imagine what a Flexing Flexplate does at 6000 RPM with a crack in it?
6) Do you really want #5 above spinning 6000 RPM only inches behind your spine?

IMHO, it's fine for an individual to assume a risk on himself in modifying a Flexplate/FW for their own use in an application it was never designed for. However, it is irresponsible to advocate that others make these modifications without also informing them of the risk. Even the act of advocating such unsafe modifications to others can make you the target of someone's Widow filing a lawsuit against you.

Please take this post in the spirit in which it is intended.

Archie

roflmao

moonster

I don't see what's so funny. I sure as hell wouldn't want a huge chunk of steel with a few dozen sharp edges breaking free and shearing my seat in half with me in it. Driving a 300hp Fiero would be fun as hell, but not too much fun if you're dead. Is it?

Archie was trying to help someone, maybe save his life.

It's all fun and games until someone gets hurt. Archie may be a grouchy old fart (and I do say that with utmost respect ) but I betcha he's forgotten more about V8 Fiero's then any of us will ever know. You tell 'em Arch!

Oh come on stimpy, I'm not a grouchy old fart.

I just think it's serious business when someone decides to spend several thousands of dollars on an engine conversion to his Fiero. I think that when someone is spending that kind of money they should be able to get correct, complete & reliable information. There are way too many people out there who have done one or 2 V-8 or NStar or 3.8 swaps and begin to think of themselves as experts on that type of Swap. As people supply information that may touch on an area that I feel qualified to comment on, I'm gonna be here to try to assure the quality and completness of the information.

For example, If I was a regular Fiero guy and invested $5K or $6K (or more) into a swap and found out later that the information I was relying on was incorrect or incomplete, I'd be pissed off. Not only would I be pissed at the idiot who supplied bad information, I'd also be upset at any expert who knew I was getting bad information and didn't speak up to save me.

I hope you know what I mean.

Archie

My fly wheel is made of ductel iron
Which is a casted piece. The core is normalized then frozen so that it
shrinks the gear is heated so that
it expands. The two pieces are then
put together with a press fit of about
.020 fit + or - .001 What I did was had a
flywheel spun up to 6000 rpm and balanced
within about 2 grams with my crank.
If a SD 2.5 will take nitros what is the
difference in a 300 hp chevy?
I know the process of a flywheel because
I have a print of a 1970 Buick 455
stage 1 flywheel.
With a flexplate that mounts
to an automatic it might be different
but mine is a flywheel for a clutch.

Ray

quote Originally posted by Archie: Oh come on stimpy, I'm not a grouchy old fart.

I didn't say that to cast aspersions on your character, but there are obviously folks that feel it is appropriate to be mockig in tone in response to some wise advice. I'm merely pointing out, love Archie or hate him, that was some good advice.

Thanks you for your concern, Archie, it is appreciated.
However, your advice applies to tempered steel flexplates, while both rprevo and myself are using cast iron (untempered) flywheels, which are different animals.
I have paid attention to stress risers in the flywheel. For example, spot facing around the holes on the clutch side was required to clear a socket around the flywheel bolts. We went to pains to radius the internal corners of this spot facing to reduce stress risers in that area.
I will say this: I know what I am doing and have access to excellent fabrication facilities. Anyone who doesn't have access to high calibre fab facilites, and ESPECIALLY anyone who doesn't know what he is doing shouldn't try the same things I am.
If he does and kills himself, it's not my fault.

I couldn't agree more.

If you don't have the ability to do it right
don't do it!

Ray