Recently i saw a that GM is selling brand new model 90 eaton superchargers. I have a few questions.

Does the air inlet have to have a throttlebody infront of it? Or could it be a straight tube with a filter on the end, like a centrifugal type charger?

This would help because i could then make a flange with a tube that goes to the TB with the charge air, and not have to make a custom intake manifold.

Basically is it possible to run a roots type blower in a centrefugal fasion?

Thanks. I need big help on this one guys!

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Mike LeCompte
86 Fiero GT 3.2L w/ Nitrous

If you can find a place to mount and drive it, the rest is easy.

Ideally, you would mount the TB to the blower inlet and then route the outlet to the intake (dump the upper and lower plenum.)

Look at the T-bird SC. You'll get the drift.

we have looked at the shop at my car.. with modification of the deck lid... you can block off the current TB/intake area, and machine the top of the pulenum with plenty of metal to work with and mount the M90 or M62 to the top of the intake with a new plate made for the TB to be attached tot the back of the S/C. i have a pulley from a buick delta 88 (86 2.8) it has on more area on the crank pulley but in 87 they went to serpentine. so yea it can be done but it's cheaper and WAY not cost effective to get the design one turbo system. www.eaton.com/supercharger/ or www.designonesystems.com

[This message has been edited by 1FST2M6 (edited 08-25-2000).]

For me it wouldn't be cost effective to buy a design one turbo kit. I built my engine for nitrous/supercharger use. It has a cam profile that is awesome for nitrous and supercharger and not so hot for turbo. The head porting was matched to the cam, and the 800 dollar headers i have wouldn't be appreciated if they were collecting dust, and the borla exhuast i also have wouldn't like sitting by the headers. I want a supercharger. Not sure if i want an eaton yet, or a centrifugal style like a vortech. A vortech would seem to be much much easier to intall than a eaton.

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Mike LeCompte
86 Fiero GT 3.2L w/ Nitrous

This may not make any sense but can you run a Rotor style blower off of say a electric motor/ Dimmer switch. Then the blower's drive pulley could face the trans side of the motor. Please don't flame the idea i don't have a blower or a V6.

A supercharger uses several horsepower at full boost. You couldn't get an electric motor big enough to turn it at the necessary rpm. Besides that, your motor would still be powering(turning) the s/c. Just with the alternator instead of the crank shaft so there ould still be parasitic loss.

i'm not sure the problem with the mounting of the twin rotor super charger but say it bolt right in BUT the drive pulley is is on the wrong end right? or I think a Moroso electric water pump drive kit could turn it BUT the S/C unit would be idleing all the time and would make no boost at WOT even with Moroso's 40% over drive pully the S/C would spin at about 2500-2700 rpm if that, because any boost made would load down the system & slow it down. so for about $2000 you can have 1 psi of boost at idle WOW. hardly worth it right.

If its a positive displacement blower, like the eaton, then you need the TB before the blower. You can run the eaton off the side of the motor and not on top like most, but then you still have to run the TB before the blower, then route the outlet of the blower to the intake without the TB. Look at the old BBK eaton blower they use to make for the 5.0. It didn't sell too well, mainly becuase it gave good low end torque, but couldn't compete HP wise with the centrifugal blowers, and it cost more because of the plumbing stuff I just talked about. If you want ultimate HP, go centrifugal, any Strim or even on a budget A trim would give you the boost you are looking for, espically in a V6.

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BBBAD GT
BBBAD 5.0

BBBadGT, ask terry, or if you know where it is... Look at a pic of a 3.4 supercharged deal that GM did with the grand am. They dont have a TB on the air inlet side, that goes to an airbox, and they have an adapter on the outlet that goes to about 2.25 or 2.5 inch pipe that goes to the TB. So my idea is possible.

I think it's a draw-through. I see a TB between the airbox and blower.

Bypasses are good on blowers, centrifugal type have bypasses that go between the outlet of the blower to the inlet (this is all after the mass air meter if equiped, because the air had already been metered). How it really comes into play is when you go full boost at say 6000 rpms under WOT, then suddenly take your foot off the accelerator but clutch still in (major deceleration), the blower is still is turning mega speed, but the TB plate is closed. This is very damaging to the blower itself, becuase all of the air being pushed by the blower hits the TB plate, and comes right back to the impler and tries to stop it, superheating the air in the meantime. I've seen implers just explode because of too much boost and and undersized bypass (lucky for that guy, all the parts were lodged in the intake). The bypass valve is only closed under zero vacuum.

On positive displacement blowers, the bypasses work the same, but its all after the TB. They really heat up the air more so than centrifugal type, and really benifit from a bypass.

Where's this photo at?

I keep getting an "Unknown Error 411" when I try to PIP it. Happens after I click "Post It".

ok so what whould be the best supercharger for the car. as of mounting wise and least likely to dammage anything???

One that will fit. If you get over that hurdle, which blower is irrelevant. There is no practical assessory location for one (or lose the AC, not a good solution).

You get nailed with location, the ability to drive it, or losing the AC.

Get the dimensions of the Paxton, Vortec, Eatons, and Whipples (nice cross-section). Find a place it will fit. Then find a way to drive it.

I know some time back, a guy mounted a Vortec back by the trans and added a pulley and long shaft (ala the 3400 SC). I don't have any other details on it.

I've looked at it and after much thought and measuring, I decided an engine swap is cheaper and easier in the long run.

Ok lets get serious. I can get a brand new eaton with a wastegate for pretty chea, plus freight. What's the recommend procedure? mill the top of the intake plenum and put a throttle body on the end of the blower? Cut a hole in the hood and make this thing look pro street? I always wanted to do that!

Mike LeCompte

From the Grand Am 3400 SC. Never see the light of day.

Magnusson/eaton is comming out with a supercharger kit for the 3.4 liter grand ams! Should be out this fall.

The setup is slightly different than the one shown. but same general idea.

The best supercharger so far is the RSM one. It is built tested available reliable and fast oh yeah no AC that is a sore point with me anyways since sports cars and AC usually don't go together. But that could be just me.

Later

Other than labor intensive, there is no reason an M-45 (smaller than the 62 or 90) couldn't be mounted much the same way. A plate at the trans holding it and a long shaft threaded in place of the pulley to just below the alternator. Might be tight there. Add a bearing where the long shaft bolts to the blower to support the shaft.

The TB from the V6 bolted to the inlet of the blower and a plate and hose back to the plenum. Maybe use a Buuck 3.8L 58mm TB.

Someone do this and let me know how it works.

Hey terry i have no experience with this on a v-6 but i had 3 of the eatons on my northstar. It wasn't that fast though. Oh did i mention i'm a senior in highschool ~

Actually RSM's kit isn't that nice. I dont mean to down a lot of products but if you ever need support for the rotrex unit you're going to be out a while, while you wait for parts to come from europe. They need to be rebuilt every 20K miles or so. Also they all seem to have a problem with the belts slipping. A guy i know with a hyndai had a 15pound pulley on his and it would slip around 11psi. This is true, not a joke. He's on EIP tunings webpage, even though their no longer a dealer for rotrex.

quote Originally posted by Sillhouette.com: The best supercharger so far is the RSM one. It is built tested available reliable and fast Later

Thats a bold statement. I'd believe it if you had a chance to try every supercharger on the market. Its easy to be bias toward the blower that you own, I am with Vortech. I think they make one hell of a street blower. Thats my opinion from experience, but if I had to do it over again, I might be talked into a NOVI, they are really impressing me lately.

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BBBAD V8

BBBAD GT

BBBAD 5.0

Already let's start of.

We, me and RSM have been trying to put a supercharger into a stock fiero engine in for three years. So BBAD GT yes I have tried all the superchargers that were available except for the Eaton one.

Hypnotise.
Have you ever seen a Rotrax supercharger? Next question have you ever been to the factory in Holland? I have done both. I have taken appart a supercharger that is used by RSM. It is a marvel of simplicity. There is nothing to break in it.
You should always buy something that is reliable so you don't have to worry about the product support. Not the other way around. You first find out how well it is supported and than buy it. A large support for the product means only one thing. It is not reliable.
Your knowledge about the Rotrax is from EPI tuning. I have heard the rumors as well. However here is the fact. When I was looking at the Rotrax supercharger in Holland I asked them that exact question. Why is EPI tuning having all those reliability problems with the Rotrax. The answer is simple. The supercharger was not lubricated properly. This unit is a turbocharger mated to a pulley system. It is a european built turbocharger (I think it is Porche They were quite skillfull in hiding it) and you know those are reliable. The pulley system has minimal moving parts. It has three bearing in a planetary arrangements. Three bearings that are standard buy anywhere under $50 dollar bearings. If one can top up the windshield washer than you can easily change those bearings.
Proof in the puding ...... RSM had the supercharger on a Fiero for two years now. It has ammounted a hell of lot more kilometers than 20,000. These are hard racing off the light tyre burning sub zero salt splashing monsoon surviving desert heat capable miles. We have thrown everything that this part of the world can offer and it is still runnig like new.
I don't know about the pulley sliping on other cars I do know that the belt is slipping on a Fiero even before you install the supercharger. Not the RSM unit. It has an extra tensioner pulley that takes all that into account. So those are the reasons and experiences that I say the Rotrax is better.
I dare you try installing a Vortech or an Eaton on a stock engine. Come on let's see what you can do.

Cheers

Uh oh, them be fightin' words!!

CLIFF, WE NEED A HOSE OVER HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sillhouette.com: If you have tried every blower on the market, why not share with everyone why this or that blower didn't work. I'm sure people here would benifit from this knowledge. This thread was started with asking help or ideas on different kinds of superchargers.

I don't think its required to vist the plant that makes your future supercharger to find out if the product if reliable. I would of thought word of mouth and reputation would take care of that pretty quick.

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BBBAD V8

BBBAD GT

BBBAD 5.0

The answer why the other superchargers are not good is quite easy. They don't fit. Our objective was to build a supercharger kit on the stock motor. That means (no cutting of body parts, hood no changing the intake manifold and hiding it so that is looks stock).
That is why I wrote the challange. I wanted you to see that others don't fit.
As far as word of mouth goes every story has two sides to it. Case in point the EPI tuning problems with the Rotrax. True that they had problem with the Rotrax, but conveniently forgott to mention the reason. A little advice don't go by word of mouth on the internet. It could cost you dearly. Always have reserve against what anybody says. It is quite easy to be misslead.

Cheers

I don't want to drag this out any farther...but...

from what you just said, it appears the only reason why the Rotrax blower is "the best supercharger so far" is simply because it fits. In my book, that alone doesn't make it the best, but it might be in yours.

Reputation isn't only on the internet, seeing what products do at the track and on the street gives me more confidence than what you read on the screen.

They're are no us dealers for rotrexs out there oh yeah and it's EIP tuning. And yes i have seen one, i have seen one apart too. And like most everything that comes from europe it's very simple, almost retarded. EIP has a damn good reputation for installation work, they're in turbo and high tech performance like every month. I've also talked to a guy who has the RSM kit and he can't keep the belt from slipping at 6psi of boost even after talking to Zsolt. Take a look at vortech's page, and also call racetech automotive, they have a vortech kit comming out. I think it uses the G trim. Very good choice. Small supports 575 hp and 20psi of boost and comes in many different configurations. it's 1700 bucks. Not much more than a rotrex. Better choice, i'll still to things that are American, they work better on my american car... Let the europeans keep they're little contraptions.

Hey silloette, if you've got 3 grand i can borrow, i'll build a votech kit, and whip the pants off anything you can come up with as far as a rotrex. And when i'm done i'll give you design and you can sell it.

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Mike LeCompte
86 Fiero GT 3.2L w/ Nitrous

Well look I tried to steer you away from my mistakes but to no avail. So in closing here are my final words on the subject. There is a supercharger kit out there that beat on the track a 300HP camaro. That is a fact. However vortech or eaton is impressive on a track is irrelevant if it is not in a Fiero. Racetech is full of it and that is also a fact. I would not hold my breath against a bunch of guys that fix a broken shift lever by replacing the monzie transmission for a Z24 tranny which still did no work on it's own. Also their famous turbocharger both of them broke down on the way back from FOCOA.
3000 US dollars is not a bad deal for a Vortech supercharger install. There is only one snag with it. What do I get if you are not successfull. The way I see it if you are the god of mechanics you need at least a month to properly install the supercharger pipe it and of course don't forget the electronic part of it. I can triple 3000US dollars in a month. So what's in it for me?
As far as support for the Rotrax goes RSM is the US supplier of Rotrax. This is a good deal because RSM resides in Canada and so you can get an excellant deal on the exchange rate.
Good old fashion american supercharger for good old fashion american car yet you are on a site that was the brainchild of a European man. No flame intended just good old fashion reasoning.

Good luck in you endevours.

Cheers