What does changing to a K&N filter do? I have an 86 SE auto. Thanks.

A K&N Filtercharger is something I plan on getting as well, and from what I've heard they add approx 5HP.. I've heard of them adding more, but that's the average I've seen with them on GM engines.

I installed a K&N on my 86SE V6. Along with some other intake mods. I did notice a bit of an increase in HP but where I really noticed the differenct was the MPG

Do K & N filters add horsepower to a fiero? NO! Are they worth buying? They last longer with cleaning/charging and therefore they may be more economical, so maybe they are.

A quote from Herb Adams:

"In searching for more power, my race crew tested the Fiero V6 engine on the
dyno without the stock air cleaner and inlet system, and we were surprised
to find that this produced no change in power. Apparently, the Pontiac
engineers did a good job on these parts because they work well, even though
they look restrictive."

If removing the stock filter has no effect on performance, then no air filter on the market will increase performance. Period..

Mike

i've read that article before too. how exactly do you charge an airfilter?

This is a somewhat general responce... Accell doesn't make a fiero filter that I know of.

there are severall filters from Accell, K&N, and Amsoil, that claim to be better, and improve flow. While much of any power gain is very dependant on specific applications, flow improvement can be signifigant over the cycle life of the filter.

A standard paper filter is good for exactly one use, or cycle, in the system. Whe it's done it's done. You then put it in the landfill. Performance of paper filters degrades quickly after installation.

Accell and AMSoil produce "oiled foam" air cleaners. These units can trap incredible amounts of crap before pluging up signifigantly. (AMSoil Does make Fiero filters.) When dirty these filters are washed and "charged" by applying fresh oil. After each charge they are good for about 10-15K miles.

K&N produces an oiled cotton gause filter. Like the oil foam it can trap large amounts of trash, and is cleaned then reoiled. Unlike the foam designs, crushing it can screw it up quite a bit or ruin it out right. Other filler makers have claimed that K&N's starting filteration after recharge is poor. This does seem to jive with even their own claims that filteration improves as the filter collects a certain amount of crud.

Any of the above is better than paper in that they are recyclable. Just who's best depends on whose hype you believe. I tend to prefer an oil foam because they are more crush tolerant. Fixed frames like paper and K&N always get crushed a certain amount. The crushing is caused partly by over tightening, partly by filters that are off spec, and partly because of the design of many filter canisters. It's extreamly rare that I've not seen a filter squashed at least some.

I've noticed that the K&N filter helps my 86GT run cooler, probably because it allows more of our cooler SF air in. Also, I've noticed smoother engine performance. But, for $40, maybe I'm trying to justify my purchase.
Go 9rs.

I've seen many situations where a K&N was better than no filter; flow isn't all cut and dried.
I've also heard horror stories from fleet mechanics as to the results of using K&N air filters in long term use(wear resulting from poor filteration)however I use these myself because of the increased performance.

I have been using the amsoil foam filters
in my non-fiero cars for many years. I have noticed better gas mileage and performance. But they are a real pain in the
but to clean and re-oil. If any one has a simple way of cleaning the foam oil filter
please post it. I normally have to rinse mine 6-7 times in a degreaser such as
simple green to get all the old oil out.

Thanks, Ross

you don't need to remove all the oil from the filter. Just the dirt. oil is oil to the filter. for this application the oil doesn't age in any real way. As long as you remove most of the dirt, your fine.

Try using Dawn dish soap, liquid laundery detergent, or one of the Citrus cleaners(Citrisolv). These are all very good at removing dirt and oil. ((next time you need to clean a concrete floor/driveway use laudery detergent. Even the NHRA hasn't found anything better.)) {I've been using GoJo's orange for some time now for a hand cleaner. I've never seen anything work this good. Clean hands with no stink and works fast.}

BTW. I was recently quoted about 30$us for the AMSoil Oil Foam filter for 4 cyl Fiero. Aparently they are in stock over night even. I think I'm going to get one. Allot cheaper than paper when you drive 20K+ a year.

Ogre, from where do you order the amsoil
air filter. I normally have to buy from an
individual, who then orders from amsoil.
It normally takes a week or two.

I also use to use the amsoil oil filter, but I
found out that "hastings" makes the filter
for amsoil. The hastings filter is the same
as the amsoil filter except for the name
sprayed on the filter. I even cut into one
to prove it to myself. hastings=$3.25
amsoil=$12.50 I know use the hastings oil
filters in all my cars.

thanks for the info on the cleaning solutions. I will try one of them next time.\

Ross

I've heard that it takes a couple days to "break in" a K&N air filter. If that person in the qoute from the top just dropped it in then they wouldn't see an improvement in performance.

Foam air filters???? I did not know that those things were still being made. I used one about 10 years ago until the car backfired through the carb and the foam got singed. It then started to come apart and fall down into the carb. It was a piece of crap so I hope these amsoil filters are better than that thing I had.

Yeah,I used to use the faom socks,made for motorcycles on my dual Webers,had to replace once a year because they'd fall apart,and once an opening was created,the pulsing would make it run slightly off,and it would take me a while to figure out.

A quote from Herb Adams:

"In searching for more power, my race crew tested the Fiero V6 engine on
the
dyno without the stock air cleaner and inlet system, and we were
surprised
to find that this produced no change in power. Apparently, the Pontiac
engineers did a good job on these parts because they work well, even
though
they look restrictive."

i can't understand the logic behind this guys statement, and his "race crew", come on!..I hope that no one actually believes this guy, i mean think about it. YOU MUST GAIN AIRFLOW WITH NO RESTRICTIONS! aka air fliter.

Also, there is no break in period for the K&N filter. It flows more air because of the design, traps more dirt and lasts a million miles!. Im sure that if i had my car dynoed with and with-out one you could see the differece.

How much are K&N Filters and where can I buy them? I'm in Canada.

This guy??? Do even know who Herb Adams is? If you did you would not even consider saying something stupid like that!! If you really think an airfilter is going to get you more HP then fine, waste your money, I couldnt care less! Maybe you should plaster some nice K&N stickers on your car too. I hear the stickers are good for a couple ponies. The dyno tests (K & N vs. Stock) you refer to have already been done, and they did not show any significant HP increase. The $30 to $40 you waste on the stupid filter could have been invested in some real mods that do increase performance.

Mike

Has anyone considered the fact that not all cars come with the same deficiencies?
2.8 isn't a real hard breathing motor,small valves,small runners on intakes.
I think Herb Adams should've stuck with the F-body cars,from what I've seen,those worked better with his mods than the Fieros.

As I said above..... One of the main advantages to oiled foam, which now have flame retardent oil, and K&N, is the fact they are REUSABLE.

Price out good paper, and then when you figure you have to replace it every 6-12 months, the 30-40$us one of these cost is sudenly quite cheap. A recharge kit is good for many charges if you do it right.

As for backfires, it's a bit more likely that a 4 cyl could barf on it's filter than the V6. By the time a V6 backfire surge reaches the can, it's had to expend most if not all its heat.

well i don't know about performance gains on fieros put foam dual-stage airfilters is all i use on my motorcycles. they DO help in many ways. more power, easy cleaning but if you run something without an airfilter i'm sure that it has to help the performance out somewhat. maybe fiero's are special in this area (not like they arn't special in every other area). I think a K&N filter would work great on a fiero, if not for more HP than just for the long-lasting, reuseableness (is that a word?

I agree with four50four- the K&N pays for itself after four oil changes (I change my air filter at oil changes). You have to think that anyone that claims a 1,000,000 warranty must have a lot of confidence in his (her) product.

I really don't care who this "herb adams" is and if he would of dynoed this mod he would of came to the comclusion that it adds more air flow, and POWER!. Was his car in a wind tunnel when and if it was dynoed anyways?, simply placing a fan in front of the air intake would not be any help!, i doub't that the fan could add 70mph winds into the grill!...i have my opinion and you have yours, grab yourself a $2.50 airfilter from K-Mart and lets line them up!., and bring your friend oh high and mighty HERBI!, he seems to know it all, I bet he also doesn't believe in underdrive pullies/chips/cam gears/ing./plugs and wires either. If i would have my own web page and stated facts would you believe them too?...i'm not dissing you!, so i don't want a hate post but think about it!...call K&N and research your own results, not listening to any old fool who have their own pages...And i'm not dissing any of you guys with pages either!..

the results on my box,
flow tests(CFM)

new foam filter(Amsoil LT-31) 376 cfm!

Paper-(AC A348c, Fram CA326, Hastings AC-145, K-Mart KA-12, Motorcraft FA-71r)
508 cfm!

K&N filtercharger (clean)887 cfm!
(40,000 miles dirty)463 cfm!

that shows k&n flows more air then your typical air filter! call them up if you have any questions!

http://www.fiero.org/text/firedup.txt I think Herb Adams is refering to the snorkle and the way the air has to travel to the filter from outside, not the filter in general.

I think we have gotten a little carried away here. Each person has had some great insight into this air filter discussion, but lets not start a flame war. Everyone knows that an engine is basically an air pump- more air in and out equals more power. However, because of mechanical limitations, an engine will only flow a certain amount of air, regardless of the air filter. If your engine will only flow 87 cubic inches of air per revolution, then having an air filter that flows 500000000 cfm of air will have no effect. If Pontiac did their homework like Herb (who helped develop the z-28 and trans am race cars of the 60's and 70's) said, then the increase in performance by adding a performance filter would probably be small. If you had a dirty air filter and swapped in a K-N or what ever, you would notice a difference. But you would probably have the same difference by adding a new oem air filter in place of the dirty one. This discussion reminds me of a Baskin Robins ice cream store- you know what I mean. 31 flavors so each person can have their favorite. Just dont expect everyone to like what you like.

I have seen enough about who's filter is best or whatever. This should solve the debate once and for all.
The formula for determining airflow in cfm is:
(cubic inches/2) * (maximum rpms/1728)*volumetric efficiency%= cfm requirement.
Most stock engines run volumetric efficiency in the 70-80% range, but for comparisons we will go with a higher 95%.
So...
(173/2) * (6500/1728)*.95= 309 cfm
Using this standard formula you can see that the 2.8 engine only needs a filter that flows 309 cfm at 6500 rpms. In reality, that is more than enough because the engine will probably not reach 95% VE without some help.

HUH?

Thanks Terrybogin (and I thought Cooter was a strange name) If your info is true, then any of the filters that Pretender listed would do fine. Terryk and theogre, what does this formula mean??? Is it accurate???

It's one of many math formuli used in engine building. I'm not sure if the exact syntax above is right but the general premis definatly is.

In short. The cylinders have a specific volume of air they will move. Add in the resistance to that flow imposed by the intake and exhaust systems. This gives you the total air an engine will use at a given RPM.

The majority of resistance is in the hardware of the motor. A soft item, like an air filter, does impose some resistance, but not enough to be signifigant to most street cars. Even Paper filters are designed to exceed the max airflow of most stock engines.

Where aftermarket filters can have impact is in engiines that have been modified in ways that result in airflow above stock. A full porting job, and especially an increase in CID, could cause this. ((A a 3.1 breathes more than a 2.8))

I'm not suprised the number of posts this thread has at all. There's allot of hype about everything you can stick on a car. The air & oil filter is one most people seem to buy into.

I have to say that I am impressed with you guys. You have summerized in the last few posts the exact facts which I had to search for days to find. :-) I think that we have to keep in mind that our cars are over ten years old. We are not the forerunners of performance enhancement on our cars, most of these concepts have been looked at and scrutinized by others many times before. I have found that a little research on the net is invaluable in making these kinds of decisions for myself. My intentions were not to start any flame war, but I do get upset when one calls someone as distinguished as Herb Adams a blatant liar.

Mike

ok whatever airfilter you want to use just use it., ok?...i'm glad this is setled but for the record i still think herbie is a moron.

You guys mean to tell me that the old cotton sock I have stuffed in the throttle body is no good???

Ozzy!