28 dead (18 children) at an elementary school (Page 9/15)
Nurb432 DEC 14, 05:11 PM

quote
Originally posted by Lambo nut:


It was tongue in cheek. I added my forgotten smiley if that makes you feel better.

Kevin



Sorry about that.
kwagner DEC 14, 05:15 PM

quote
Originally posted by Purple86GT:


No I do not, I do however think that some can be averted or the consequences can be less severe.

Gun laws will never prevent PLANNED attacks. they will virtually stop unplanned aggressions.

You also need to factor in the average Joe with sub average training on the proper use of a firearm. The training you need to have the "right" to carry a firearm is ridiculous. Where I work we have stringent training (over a year), follow-up training, psych test, etc. to carry a weapon. Armed personnel are trained to not pull out their weapon unless they are POSITIVE of the results. You do not want to cause a panic reaction from the other party with a weapon, you do not want hostages, etc..




I agree that there's too many people that are of the mentality to "pop a cap" if anyone does anything to them. Just this week in my old hometown two 14 year olds shot a 20-something mother when she told them to "get a job" and wouldn't give them a cigarette. They then posted pics on fbook of them posing with some guns. I don't think any gun control law would have prevented that, though. People with no respect for human life and those who think of guns as toys or a way to force their will on others wont change their mentality because of a law.

On the one hand, it should reduce the number of incidents like that. On the other, it prevents more citizens from being able to defend themselves. Would murders increase or decrease? More training is a good thing (perhaps a boot camp of sorts?). I think the continuum between "no gun banned" and "all guns banned" is very tricky to navigate.
CoryFiero DEC 14, 05:21 PM

quote
Originally posted by lurker:

kinda makes me wish we could somehow put these guy's brains in a jar and figure out what's wrong with them so we know what to look for. ok, so hypothetically, we allow any concealed carry owner to do so, in "gun free zones". are there any statistics on gun crimes by cc holders? are there 2 (or more) different kinds of gun owners?



It's unfortunate? that most of the time the shooters destroy their brain with a bullet.

I would say there are many different types of gun owners. Brainstorming...

Criminals - Use guns for nefarious reasons, usually untrained, some did not obtains guns through a firearms dealer, do not care about laws.
Collectors - Collect guns because they can, enjoy shooting and cleaning guns, most purchased through firearms dealers, usually trained. Skirt laws on certain weapon bans.
Hunters/Sportsmen - Usually trained (hunters permit classes), most purchased through firearms dealers, follow laws.
Personal Protection (no carry permit, home security), guns purchased through legal means, various degree's of training
Personal Protection (concealed carry permit holders), guns purchased through legal means, intense background check and training. knows and follow's the law.
http://www.guns.com/2012/12...-by-next-week-video/


quote
(from Florida) Another important stat is the revocation percentage, i.e. how many licensees lose their permit due to crime-related activity. Putman said that of the 2.3 million licenses issued, only 7,244 licenses (0.3 percent) have been canceled.
Darth Fiero DEC 14, 05:25 PM
Latest reports say the younger brother first murdered his father in NJ and then traveled to this school in CT where his mother works and committed the mass tragedy. Some reports say the younger brother had his older brother's ID on him so that's why some early reports were saying the older brother was the shooter. The older brother is now in custody and is being questioned. (There are conflicting reports as to whether or not he was actually involved in this). Just heard there is a report now saying the girlfriend and her father? of the shooter are missing. As with any developing story, there are going to be inconsistencies.

In any case, it sounds like this was planned out and wasn't a "spur of the moment" thing. In future days coming I wouldn't be surprised to hear it revealed that this nut had some mental issues and/or a criminal background.

[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 12-14-2012).]

PURPLE REIGN DEC 14, 05:27 PM

quote
Originally posted by 2.5:

People can kill with their bare hands. Some with their feet.

What will we do about that?



Those people can be convicted as such like an ex Navy Seal that has been trained. Their hands & training etc are all lethal factors in court.
Not sure how this thread got so off coarse, but it just makes me want to sobb relentlessly thinking about sledding with my kids, and then the next day sledding with only one ore none
Lambo nut DEC 14, 05:33 PM

quote
Originally posted by lurker:

what are you trying to say here, kevin?




quote
Originally posted by lurker:

the concealed carry option might have merit if there's some extra scrutiny, as opposed to just anyone who passes NICS at wal-mart.



You didn't think they just give CCW permits to just anybody did you? As Darth said, 8 hour course, background checks through local Sheriff and State Patrol data banks, fingerprinting, take all background approved material to the DMV for endorcment on a state issued ID card, took about 3 weeks for whole process. Little more involved then an over the counter gun sale at any gun dealer. Other states may be different, but still more involved then an NICS check.

Kevin
Nurb432 DEC 14, 05:34 PM

quote
Originally posted by Darth Fiero:


In any case, it sounds like this was planned out and wasn't a "spur of the moment" thing. In future days coming I wouldn't be surprised to hear it revealed that this nut had some mental issues and/or a criminal background.




I think its safe to say that with what he did , there were mental issues involved. Sane and rational people dont commit acts such as this.
Lambo nut DEC 14, 05:37 PM

quote
Originally posted by Nurb432:


I think its safe to say that with what he did , there were mental issues involved. Sane and rational people dont commit acts such as this.



True.

Yet the media and the Libs want to punish the sane. What a concept.

Kevin
Niterrorz DEC 14, 05:52 PM

quote
Originally posted by Purple86GT:


No I do not, I do however think that some can be averted or the consequences can be less severe.

Gun laws will never prevent PLANNED attacks. they will virtually stop unplanned aggressions.

You also need to factor in the average Joe with sub average training on the proper use of a firearm. The training you need to have the "right" to carry a firearm is ridiculous. Where I work we have stringent training (over a year), follow-up training, psych test, etc. to carry a weapon. Armed personnel are trained to not pull out their weapon unless they are POSITIVE of the results. You do not want to cause a panic reaction from the other party with a weapon, you do not want hostages, etc..




by your own admission more guns laws would not have prevented this from happening because it was a planned attack. so this case cannot be considered for your stricter gun laws. when a gun massacre happens that isnt planned (see what i did there?) happens then you can put all the gun laws in place you want.
lurker DEC 14, 05:54 PM

quote
Originally posted by Lambo nut:
You didn't think they just give CCW permits to just anybody did you? As Darth said, 8 hour course, background checks through local Sheriff and State Patrol data banks, fingerprinting, take all background approved material to the DMV for endorsement on a state issued ID card, took about 3 weeks for whole process. Little more involved than an over the counter gun sale at any gun dealer. Other states may be different, but still more involved than an NICS check.

Kevin


actually, kevin, i was asking for clarification of this part.
"jumps in feet first without having a clue"
i'm fully aware that concealed carry permit procedures require extra scrutiny in my state. as you say, they vary from state to state, which is why some states do not respect other states' permits. what i'm trying to do is be sure i understand corey's position without being demeaning, insulting or condescending.

btw, i just changed your rating from + to neutral, because i think you're a rude and inconsiderate individual. you seem to believe that anyone who might disagree with you is an idiot, and are not shy about saying so.