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| V8 Archie Dyno Vid (Page 9/45) |
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Oreif
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JUN 09, 07:38 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by Steven Snyder:
And Michael Smith put down 240 whp with a 3.4 DOHC years ago (http://fiero.cc/fiero-tdc/members/mws/intake/index.html). |
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It isn't my "baseline". But anyways, So let me get this correct, A stock basic low compression SBC V-8 has 230 rwhp and it is garbage because of two highly modified 3.4DOHC engine make the same rwhp?? Can you say "Apples to Oranges"?? Have you guys been talking to Dennis again???
Let's do the same mods to the SBC and see wht the RWHP is. Oh wait, Then it would take away your point.  I mean it's really fair to compare a highly modded engine to a stock engine right? How about comparing it to a "stock" ZZ4? I know of two that put down 309 rwhp. It has a cast iron block and aluminum heads just like the 3.4DOHC. Yes it has more displacement but it also has 8 less valves. That sounds fair right??? So what would you want 221-240 rwhp or 309 rwhp??
Did you happen to notice that a stock 3.4LDOHC that ran on the same dyno the same day pulled a mere 158 rwhp?? I could do a search on the internet and find numerous examples of the same engine getting between 175 to 190 rwhp out of a 3.4DOHC.
I find it amazing that many here keep stating that aside from the fact that Archie lied about what the engine really was, that many think it is an example of all SBC V-8 swap's. Crzyone made this comment on the first page: "How many people who showed up at the dyno who will never see this tread left disappointed seeing a "377" put down 230hp? Can't see that being good for business." Do you think the guy thinking about swapping a 3.4DOHC was excited about 158 rwhp? Or the guy looking to swap in the highly popular 3800SC was overcome with joy at the 170 rwhp??? That's what those stock engines ran the same day. So a N/A 3.4DOHC and a supercharged 3800SC both looked very weak compared to the V-8 that were all run on the same day. Now everyone who was there and going by only what they actually saw on the dyno would most likely call Archie. Why would you want to spend all that time and money to drop in a supercharged engine to only make 170 rwhp when you can drop in a V-8 and gain 60 rwhp more? Sounds like it would be good for business, not bad. See when you compare apples to apples, many of the difference's that folks are discussing disappear. Comparing a stock V-8 dyno'd under poor conditions vs. modifed V-6's under normal conditions isn't going to make any difference to the folks who saw the dyno's at Daytona and are not on either forum.
Archie says all they did was correct a rocker issue and ran it on a more accurate dyno and got 250rwhp. So it's not 9 hp less and 10 hp more, it's more like 29 hp less and 10 hp less. Which makes a [dennis mode] stock dinosaur pushrod engine fueled by an antiquated carb [/dennis mode] more powerful than a "state-of-the-art" Multi-valved, dual overhead cam, modern EFI engine that has been highly modified. For someone seeking max power, What would that person pick? The 240rwhp already highly modified V-6 or the 250rwhp stock V-8 that has no mods but a very huge and popular aftermarket?
Remeber for many years when the F-body and Mustang "HP wars" were going on, a mere 5-10hp difference in the motors was enough to draw in buyers away from the other.
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Alex4mula
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JUN 09, 10:00 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by Oreif:
.....
I find it amazing that many here keep stating that aside from the fact that Archie lied about what the engine really was, that many think it is an example of all SBC V-8 swap's. Crzyone made this comment on the first page: "How many people who showed up at the dyno who will never see this tread left disappointed seeing a "377" put down 230hp? Can't see that being good for business." Do you think the guy thinking about swapping a 3.4DOHC was excited about 158 rwhp? Or the guy looking to swap in the highly popular 3800SC was overcome with joy at the 170 rwhp??? That's what those stock engines ran the same day. So a N/A 3.4DOHC and a supercharged 3800SC both looked very weak compared to the V-8 that were all run on the same day. Now everyone who was there and going by only what they actually saw on the dyno would most likely call Archie. Why would you want to spend all that time and money to drop in a supercharged engine to only make 170 rwhp when you can drop in a V-8 and gain 60 rwhp more? Sounds like it would be good for business, not bad. See when you compare apples to apples, many of the difference's that folks are discussing disappear. Comparing a stock V-8 dyno'd under poor conditions vs. modifed V-6's under normal conditions isn't going to make any difference to the folks who saw the dyno's at Daytona and are not on either forum.
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Got it nailed. You are the man! 
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ryan.hess
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JUN 09, 10:29 AM
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The point isn't that "a basic SBC has 230 rwhp and is garbage because a highly modified 3.4 can make the same RWHP", it's that the 3.4 doesn't require a $1000 adapter. The only thing "not stock" about Steven's 3.4 is the K&N filter and short runner intake [and the rebuild, which I would hope the other engine has anyways]. I would assume the 305/350/377 or whatever it is now has a K&N filter too.
But that's not the point. The point is, if you're going to make
| quote | | your Fiero smoke just about anything on the street. |
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You're going to need a lot of horsepower. 200whp just doesn't cut it anymore. There are mildly modified showroom cars out there putting 300 to the wheels.
So my question is why? Why hasn't Archie built a 400whp fiero to show off his skills and products?
Don't say it's because of money. He has the money. You don't need a customers credit card to build something to advertise your services. IMHO, it's because fiero trannies break. Most customers with a "hot rod" want a stick. They also want something that won't break if you play with it. So it would be a bad PR move, and he has nothing to gain. So that's why you're seeing what you seeing. Don't blame Archie for shitty transverse trannies...
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Formula88
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JUN 09, 12:06 PM
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How much money would you spend on advertising if you already had people lined up outside the door waiting to get in? Judging from all of the threads I've seen Archie post, he's always got multiple projects running. Spending a wad of cash on a halo car for advertising is throwing money away if you're already doing good business.
Maybe if he was just starting out and trying to make a name for himself or if business was slow, he might need something like that to get people excited about his cars. But with his already established reputation, he doesn't seem to need much in the way of advertising.
The best advertisement I've seen for Archie is to take a ride in one of his cars. I did, and I'm sold. And it wasn't some 600 HP drag race only monster, either. It was a mild LT1.
This thread has gone from "why did the engine run so bad" to " why doesn't Archie spend more on advertising?" Face it, the only purpose this thread serves is to try and nitpick everything he does and somehow show his work inferior. Shaunna and his nutswingers can continue their circle jerk and slapping each other on the back about how much trash they talk about him, and his customers will still show up, buy his products, and enjoy their V8 Fieros.
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Saxman
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JUN 09, 12:21 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Formula88:
How much money would you spend on advertising if you already had people lined up outside the door waiting to get in? Judging from all of the threads I've seen Archie post, he's always got multiple projects running. Spending a wad of cash on a halo car for advertising is throwing money away if you're already doing good business.
Maybe if he was just starting out and trying to make a name for himself or if business was slow, he might need something like that to get people excited about his cars. But with his already established reputation, he doesn't seem to need much in the way of advertising.
The best advertisement I've seen for Archie is to take a ride in one of his cars. I did, and I'm sold. And it wasn't some 600 HP drag race only monster, either. It was a mild LT1.
This thread has gone from "why did the engine run so bad" to " why doesn't Archie spend more on advertising?" Face it, the only purpose this thread serves is to try and nitpick everything he does and somehow show his work inferior. Shaunna and his nutswingers can continue their circle jerk and slapping each other on the back about how much trash they talk about him, and his customers will still show up, buy his products, and enjoy their V8 Fieros. |
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Touche' - very well said!
So much jealousy. He wouldn't be a big target unless he was a big business. Keep up the great work, Archie!
http://www.allinthefamilysi...soundfiles/aitf3.wav
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FastIndyFiero
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JUN 09, 12:51 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Formula88:
And yet you didn't post it until after everyone on RFT started talking about it being posted over here. Or as you put it, "I couldn't help myself." and then posted a link to this thread so the nutswingers can find it.
If you just wanted discussion, you would have posted the video earlier, and not gone out of your way to make sure everyone on RFT knows you posted it.
You did it to earn brownie points over there and to stir up shiat over here. At least have the stones to admit it. |
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So since you've joined in the fray, should I start calling YOU a nutswinger? Excuse me if I use some tact and NOT resort to name calling right away. Did I know that this thread would probably stir the pot? Of course. Was that the reason I started it? No.
Like I said, I just wondered why it dyno'd so low.
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Scott-Wa
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JUN 09, 12:51 PM
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The dyno result is pretty much in the range of what most street driven carbed small block chevy powered vehicles were running on the dyno at the shop I was last working at (Turbo Technology in Tacoma, WA). That included pretty much all the 383 with aftermarket head ones also... 220-260 hp was about it with a carb setup.
Yeah there were race cars putting down more but I don't think I saw a carbed 350-383 in a street vehicle that made 300hp. That old school magic 1hp per cubic inch isn't really that easy to do, especially to the ground in a vehicle swinging a vacuum/mechanical advance and a carb. Change to a computer running things with full mapping and a turbo and you could get a car with good street manners putting out over 1000hp like a couple of small block ford projects that all got completed while I was there. Nothing stock and megabucks involved there.
Step up to the newer style engines with fuel injection like Archie is also putting into Fieros and I'm sure there are cars he's built putting 400hp to the ground with better driveability attributes. The carbed small block is old school and has it's limits, especially when the constraints of pump fuel and having to be able to crank it up and go come into play. Try running 12.5:1 cr on a carbed street engine with todays gasoline like the new stock chevy motors do... Fuel injection and the incredible power of the computer mapping of spark/fuel/cam timing have taken it to a new level, but that wasn't what was on the dyno.
The 377 claims are/were childish, but with an 80's cast iron head, dual plane intake w/carb, and that exhaust I don't think you'd see 10hp difference to the ground. If the heads are the casting I suspect, the numbers were well within the range of what was to be expected.
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Steven Snyder
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JUN 09, 01:21 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Oreif:
It isn't my "baseline". But anyways, So let me get this correct, A stock basic low compression SBC V-8 has 230 rwhp and it is garbage because of two highly modified 3.4DOHC engine make the same rwhp?? |
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How is my motor highly modified? It's a careful rebuild with a modified factory intake manifold and a ricer-style "cold air intake" with a K&N filter that hasn't been cleaned in 3 years. I didn't do anything else performance-wise. I didn't even change the cam timing, and its also not even tuned properly.
| quote | | Let's do the same mods to the SBC and see wht the RWHP is. |
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Ok, rebuild the bottom end on the SBC, cut 8 inches off the intake runners, leave everything else stock including the carb and intake manifold..... I bet it would make LESS power because it can't be revved high enough (and doesn't have the head flow) to take advantage of zero runner length it would end up with.
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fierobear
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JUN 09, 01:21 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Steven Snyder:
And Michael Smith put down 240 whp with a 3.4 DOHC years ago (http://fiero.cc/fiero-tdc/members/mws/intake/index.html). |
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FYI - that car is now owned by pokeyfiero. It is stupid, scary fast.
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fierobear
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JUN 09, 01:36 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by ryan.hess:
So my question is why? Why hasn't Archie built a 400whp fiero to show off his skills and products?
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What kind of power does Bob Rutz' (rgeeinc) ZZ430 put out? Archie did that install, don't know if he did any special tuning to the engine.
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