It's about making sure that the driver knows for sure that he is a loser (and probably sucks as a human being).

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My Web page | The Turbo Super Duty Build.

Well I'm not crazy for anything really. I just get sick and tired of people promoting japanese cars (like everything else at America's throat these days) like they are going out of style...and they are half of what is on the road. So they like to hyper tune screaming econoboxes in Japan. GREAT! I'm not Japanese. I'm American. I like domestic cars. They may be a little too "behind the times" and "anglophile" for import lovers...that's fine...go support someone else's family overseas....it is your right. You have my respect...after all it takes a real man/woman to stand up for America and not only buy and promote Japan and every other nation that wants to see us off the face of the earth......but flame others who might have a differing opinion.

And yes, turbo cars are not the best for auto-X, espeically if your running a larger turbo on a smaller displacement engine. I guess it all depends on your goals for the car, I know my car is a fat pig so i'm not going to try to make it do something like that because it would cost me 4 times as much to make it handle as good as a lighter more well balanced car would just because mine is so heavy. I will spend more money on making it handle good enough to keep my on the road and making it have more power since it is a better investment...

1988 Mitsubishi Starion ESI-R
Curb Weight: 3190
HP: 188@5000rpm
0-60: 8.3
1/4 Mile: 16.2

1988 Pontiac Fiero Formula
Curb Weight: 2750
HP: 135@3800rpm
0-60: 7.6
1/4 Mile: 15.8

Source: July 1988 Motor Trend Magazine page 132 (the performance listing for all the cars tested in the past year.)

So now that we have 2 1988 vehicles tested by the same magazine and the Fiero was faster in the performance area even though the 4-cyl was turbo'd and put out more horsepower.
More horsepower does not mean it's actually faster.

This has been an amusing thread. Sorry, but an Eclipse from the "factory" isn't as fast as some people think.
A new one (2005) is a fat pig. A 3.0L V-6 at 210hp on a 3307 lbs chassis and is slow. The older ones are not much better. The Stock Factory Turbo AWD's of the 1990 thru 1997 never got faster than 15.0 seconds in the 1/4 mile and in 1990 they weighed in at 2950 lbs, By 1997 they were 3200 lbs. for the AWD GSX. The stock turbo engines never made more than 210hp. So even with 16 years of advances, The Eclipse is actually slower than previous years. EVO's, WRX's, SRT4's, Focus SVT's, etc are the newer "pocket rockets" The Fiero, RX7, CRX, and the Mopar/DSM Turbo cars were the "pocket rockets" of the 80's. As for "who's faster", That is determined by mods and driver. An 8-second "streetable" car is a fantasy. The set-up the vehicles use at the strip is NOT the same set-up used on the street. There are generally differences in octane, timing, boost level, tires, etc. Just because the guy has it registered, license plates on it, insurance on it, and he drives it around does not mean it is "streetable". I know many with cars that are in the 8-10 second range, They drive it on the road to shows and such, But it isn't a "streetable" car. I don't care what kind of car it is, once you get into the 10's and less the car has been modded to the point of not being "streetable".

I now have a V-8 Fiero which is running about mid 12's. This isn't bad for just adding in a "crate" engine. It may not be the "fastest" but it's just a normally aspirated carb'd engine that will put many newer cars to shame.

The only other thing I'd like to comment on is I consider a "ricer" someone you puts stuff on a car for no other reason then to make it look gaudy or portray the vehicle as something it is not. (It does not mean they own imports, We have plenty of american cars in a sad state of "rice" as well.)
A "tuner" is someone who spends his money on functional things to make the car faster or handle better. The "ricers" by me are a large group and are the biggest morons I know. There are a few tuners in the area and they do have impressive cars, But I know for a fact that one guy has spent a lot more than I have and he's only running in the low 13's. True performance parts for any car isn't "cheap" and since "Tuners" are the fastest growing aftermarket, The prices are higher since the high demand is there.

Bottom line:
What would I rather be driving:
A brand new pocket rocket with turbo whining exhaust.
or
A 19 year old car with a large displacement hot rod engine.

Answer:
See sig.

ricers are only cars with lots of stickers etc and no go?????
you guys are kinda looking hypocritical. rice as in the land where lots of rice grows. orient.
a cavalier with "ricer" mods is just a wantabee not a real ricer.

i want to beat ricers cause im proud of my AMERICAN iron. it IS a matter of patriotism. Ferraris and Lamborghinis did not take a large part of our wealth. i know the whole parts came from where? debate gets mirky, unfortunately. the cars like Vibe are definitely ricers. puny engines and big pipes, but most importantly, look under the dash - the ecm says Toy...

things do change when you get into the nsx and other fast rwd cars. i start to respect them more. the "fast" american cars that are fwd are just owned by confused individuals. physics is plain. weight shift to the rear on accel.

I have $2500 in my formula with sc3800 and five speed. supposed to do mid 13's. takes an auto vette to 60'. the engine is bone stock and should last forever.

That brings me to why i have loved FIEROS since the first spy photos . . . POTENTIAL!!
hated the stock 4. (in '82) not to impressed with the 6. but when all was said and done, would you put a lt1 in a cavalier???? how fast would it be? how would it handle? I love Fieros

oreif, that was a very well worded post. i have always respected you for your knowledge and skills over here in fiero land. the point being raised at the time was dollar for dollar modding. a stock eclipse only runs low 15s like you stated. new srt4s are going high 13s. the progression of time has changed the way cars are being built. todays new cars are about like the muscle car wars of the of the late 60s and early 70s. unfortunately the prices are out of the reach of most mortals. i just get sick of hearing people bag on stuff when they don't know what they are talking about. thats why i posted the things i did.