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Phranc
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MAY 30, 01:14 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by Jake_Dragon:
I am just stating facts that I believe, when its no longer fun I will leave. You are free to believe as you do.
So if not religion what keeps you from killing these freaks? http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum6/HTML/065726.html
Honest question because I believe that they will get judged in more ways than man is capable. If I didn't then I would be waiting out side of the court house. What does someone with no faith in a higher being believe in that keeps them from acting out as an animal and killing these scum bags? |
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Well its called being civilized. There is no need for religion to be a civilized person. It is also possible to have morals and ethics with out imaginary friends.
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Phranc
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MAY 30, 01:16 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by Carver1:
There is no help for you unless God steps in and shows you the way. You may chose to ignore it, or maybe already have. That is the beauty of humanity. Free will. God's forgiveness is eternal, and it's FREE. The best thing you could ever receive cost absolutely nothing. It has already been paid in full. |
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Help for what? There is no god to step in and show me anything. Your imaginary friend can't forgive me because it isn't real.
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Phranc
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MAY 30, 01:18 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by frontal lobe:
Phranc,
I'll answer just because you asked, not because I'm trying to convince you.
Is the God in the bible real? A. yes
Can you quote exactly where god said this? A. Romans 1:26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
You saying that you value the god in the bible to dictate what is and isn't unnatural for despite what actual nature tells you. A. Elsewhere in the bible it says that God created everything, so He would logically get to dictate what is natural as creator of it. Regarding actual observation of nature, I'm not sure to what you are referring but I'm not asking you to say what that is.
Thats fine but you better be willing to accept confrontation when you use such statements . You obviously aren't. You really can't defend your position.
A. Phranc, it should be obvious to you or any objective observer that I am more than willing to accept confrontation. Why would you even say that? I think it is clear from this thread that I have accepted the confrontation and patiently tried to defend the position and explain the basis from which I'm defending it.
I never said you should accept it as true. But just because you don't, it doesn't mean I didn't defend my position or answer. I never said you shouldn't confront or challenge it. I never denigrated you for not thinking about it or seeing it like I do. I never called you a name nor insulted you. I never belittled your viewpoint. |
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You didn't quote god.
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fierobear
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MAY 30, 01:53 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by Phranc:
Well its called being civilized. There is no need for religion to be a civilized person. It is also possible to have morals and ethics with out imaginary friends. |
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The problem with human morality (absent a diety) is that such morality is flexible. It is subject to change based on how the current society feels.
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avengador1
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MAY 30, 10:15 AM
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| quote | It is conceivable, then, that the subject of the referenced thread could become "normal" in another few decades, and those people, whether in the US or Canada, are protected against speech calling them "scum bags." That's what NAMBLA is all about. Men marrying young boys. If the men love the young boys, and the young boys love the men, who does it hurt?
Sounds disgusting? Sure does to me; I have two boys (and two girls, too). But is it inconceivable that the legal precedents set by Massachusetts, Vermont, et al could be a stepping stone to this? I hope not, but I believe so. |
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I don't see this happening as we have laws to protect minors. By law, minors are incapable of making a decision like this and it is illegal for adults to engage in this activity with minors. It's statutory rape.
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avengador1
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MAY 30, 10:19 AM
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I also prefer to follow Jesus' example.
| quote | John 8:1-11 (New International Version)
John 8 1But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" 6They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.
But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." 8Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
9At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"
11"No one, sir," she said. "Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin." |
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Note: The Old Testament listed adultery as a capital crime (Lev. 20:10). It merits no punishment in today's society. As a side note, here is a link with some interesting observations about this passage.
http://www.xenos.org/teachi...ohn/gary/john8-1.htm[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 05-30-2009).]
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Carver1
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MAY 30, 10:23 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by Phranc:
Help for what? There is no god to step in and show me anything. Your imaginary friend can't forgive me because it isn't real. |
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Satan has a stranglehold on you brother. Has anyone ever told you how to accept Jesus and receive eternal life? I won't preach to you. I'm not the best Christian in the world, but I hate to see someone in the dark as far as you are.
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avengador1
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MAY 30, 10:37 AM
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For those interested in salvation. http://www.greatbiblestudy....blical_salvation.php
| quote | Salvation according to the Bible
Home > Salvation according to the Bible -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Believe upon Jesus Believing upon Jesus (the right Jesus) is a necessity to being saved: John 3:18, "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
We must repent We must turn from our wicked ways: Luke 5:32, "I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." and also Luke 13:3, "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."
Be born again We must be born again: John 3:3, "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
If you continue reading in John chapter 3 verses 14 through 21 tells you how you can become born again. Verse 16 pretty much tells you what you need to do: John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
Beware of the 'wrong Jesus' Warning against 'another Jesus': 2 Corinthians 11:4, "For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him."
The true Jesus would be born of a virgin: Isaiah 7:14, "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel." (Also see Matthew 1:23) Mormonism for example, believes that the Father (which in their belief is Adam who became a god) came down physically and mated with his 'spirit daughter' Mary and out came Jesus' body. Their Jesus resulted from INCEST and NOT from a virgin birth! They also believe that Satan and Jesus are brothers! That is a mockery to the true Jesus!
Jesus (the right Jesus) is the ONLY way to heaven: John 10:1, 9, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber... I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture." John 14:6, "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
Beware of religions that appear to be good Warning about Satan's ministers appearing to be righteous: 2 Corinthians 11:14, 15, "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works."
Beware of angels giving revelations contrary to God's Word: Another thing I'd like to point out is that the Mormon's "revelation" came from an angel (a fallen angel by the name of Moroni), and in Galatians 1:8 it directly warns us against an angel giving us a revelation that doesn't line up with God's Word, "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."
In the end days, there will be many who fall into deceiving religions: 1 Timothy 4:1, "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils." If you look up seducing in the Greek for that verse, it means deceiving. Deceiving means to appear to be true, yet it's false, or to give a false impression. This verse is talking about religions that appear to be right, but don't lead a person down the path to heaven. For example, Mormonism is the kind of religion they are talking about here, because it 'seems right' and yet it is so far off the track. I think it's pretty clear that Satanism won't lead a person to heaven, but yet it doesn't look like a godly religion either. It's pretty clear that they aren't trying to 'appear' godly. Satan works in different ways in different religions. The goal of Satanism isn't to try to deceive Christians to convert, but to directly bring Satan glory (demon worship, marrying Satan, etc.). Whereas the goal of Mormonism is to appeal to lukewarm Christians and people who are looking for a "nice" religion.
Simply believing in Jesus isn't enough Just acknowledging Jesus isn't enough: Shortly after John 3:16, it tells us in verse 21, "But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God." Also, James 2:19-26 says, "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also." Some people claim that they are Christian, so that they feel they are going to heaven, but if they don't turn from their wicked lifestyle, then they aren't living up to their professed faith.
Salvation cannot be earned On the other hand, we cannot earn our salvation: Eph 2:8-9, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." But notice that in verse 10 it says, "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." I believe it's telling us that we can't be 'saved' by our works, but we are suppose to live a Godly life as a Christian. We aren't to claim we are Christians, and then go out and continue to live in the world.
Obey God's commandments We must obey God's commandments: Matthew 7:21-23, "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
What are God's commandments? Matthew 22:37-40, "Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." There are a lot of laws in the OT against things such as incest, adultery, worshipping idols, etc., but they all fall into these two categories. If a person loved God, they wouldn't be worshipping idols, misusing their bodies or minds for purposes that don't glorify God, and if a person loved his neighbor, he or she wouldn't steal, murder, or mistreat others. Jesus says that we prove our love for Him when we keep His commandments (John 14:15, 23, 24).
If we don't love the brethren, we abide in spiritual death: 1 John 3:14, "We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." Mark 11:26 tells us that if we don't have mercy and forgive one another, it blocks us off from God forgiving us.
The unrighteous will not enter the kingdom of God: 1 Corinthians 6:9, "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." Of course, a person can come from that kind of a lifestyle, and be redeemed (that's why Jesus came to earth!), but that doesn't mean they can continue in their sins.
Sanctification (becoming more like Jesus) Becoming more Christ-like is a growing process: Have you noticed how nobody becomes perfect in all their ways the moment they accept Christ? I believe there is a growing process we go through called sanctification. 1 Thessalonians 5:23, "And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." 2 Timothy 2:22, "Flee also youthful lusts: but follow (pursue) righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart." |
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[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 05-30-2009).]
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Carver1
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MAY 30, 11:05 AM
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avengador1 + for you.
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Phranc
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MAY 30, 12:25 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Carver1:
Satan has a stranglehold on you brother. Has anyone ever told you how to accept Jesus and receive eternal life? I won't preach to you. I'm not the best Christian in the world, but I hate to see someone in the dark as far as you are. |
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Satan? You mean the imaginary enemy of your imaginary friend. Why would I accept Jesus? He is just a dead man. Why would I want eternal life? I don't need false promises to make me feel special and give me a false hope that there is something after you die.
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