Five against one. Fair fight? Perhaps not. (Page 8/26)
ditch MAY 31, 10:44 AM

quote
Originally posted by FIEROPHREK:
I have a question. Can you look at a teeneage girl and tell she's 2 weeks preggers?



Nope. Personally, if I had been in his shoes, once the two jumped me (after escaping a shotgun being pointed at me) I wouldn't care if she was 2 weeks or full term. That would be the last thing on my mind at that point. I'd be stabbing them both as much as possible to protect myself and get out of there before the others get the shotgun again.

The best thing this guy can do right now is move. With his apartment number shown on the news and the attackers being potential gang members, he's probably not too safe right now.

[This message has been edited by ditch (edited 05-31-2006).]

lou_dias MAY 31, 11:18 AM
Read the original article again:


quote
Contrary to earlier reports an autopsy showed that Martin was not pregnant when she was killed.



I've been jumped before. When I was getting kicked in the ribs and pounded on my face, if I had a knife, I would have swung wildly too. Man or woman, you shouldn't be robbing anybody. People put themselves in situations and try to blame someone else for the results.
fierofool MAY 31, 07:08 PM
As Raydar said, the local tv and radio stations are saying the young woman was NOT pregnant. They HAVE been saying that two individuals were armed. One had a hand gun, and the other a sawed off shotgun. The person with the hand gun isn't identified, but the reporting leads you to believe it might have been the woman.

The defense attorney for one of the individuals is trying to get him released on the premise that he didn't get out of the car. This leads you to believe that 4 of the individuals exited the car after they chased the man down. Now, either of the other two men could have been the one that was armed with the hand gun. But that's not how it was written and reported.
Patrick MAY 31, 10:50 PM

Talk about mob mentality…

Not once in this thread did I ever criticize what this Marine did. He protected himself. I openly stated I had no problem with that.

I simply made a comment about how it was a pregnant teenage girl who was killed (according to the news story at the time). Am I the only one who thinks it’s unfortunate that we have young people involved in criminal activities, and who then end up dying because of their own stupidity? Don’t any of you have sisters, daughters, or friends who are girls? Would it not bother you to see them become engaged in criminal activities and then die at 17 years of age? Would you not think that was a complete waste of potential? How is that in any way critical of the Marine’s actions?

You know, it’s one thing to disagree with someone here on this forum, even if in this case a bunch of you guys have intentionally or unintentionally misinterpreted what I’ve stated. It’s not enough that you slam me (that’s fine, I can take it), but why the negative ratings? I’ve picked up about ten of them. For what?

We’ve got a guy who’s posted in this thread who stated in Another thread:


quote
Originally posted by under8ted:

The only good cop.....is a dead cop.

no woder i smile every time I open a newspaper and read that one of them is dead. One is not enough.




Do the rest of you share his opinion? (If so, maybe I should be spending less time in this forum.)

I thought the rating system was to remove nut cases like that from our “community” here. It turns out his post hardly raised an eyebrow. Meanwhile, I’m being raked over the coals because I had the audacity to mention it was a teenage girl who died in the altercation! Well excuse me, but this seems somehow totally all f*cked up.

One guy here who is a real work of art is BN Boomer. There were many comments in this thread that I felt were unjust, but I’m still scratching my head over the following exchange:


quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

Just to keep some perspective on this, it was a pregnant teenage girl who was killed.





quote
Originally posted by BN Boomer:

I sure hope to never see you showing support for abortion rights.





quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

Excuse me ?





quote
Originally posted by BN Boomer:

Why? Did you open your mouth again and out popped some more of your putrid flatulence?




What the hell was that all about? How did “abortion rights” enter the discussion? When I asked for clarification, all I got was some insipid juvenile insults. Normally I respect forum members who’ve been here for awhile, but obviously in this case that isn’t warranted.

If it turns out that none of you wish to have an open discussion here based on facts, then by all means, continue to keep those negative ratings coming. Normally, I don’t give a hoot about the rating system here, but I have to admit, this thread has been a real eye opener for me. And from what I can see, it ain’t pretty…
Formula88 MAY 31, 11:42 PM
We get your point, Patrick. It is a tragedy when someone throws their life away, either by being stupid or making bad choices. It's a tragedy that she allegedly decided to become a gang member. It's a tragedy that she chose to participate in armed robbery.

But here's the point you seem to miss. She made those choices. Tragic, sure, but not as tragic as the intended victim - an innocent man who did not have a choice. He was forced into a situation where he had to fight for his life, and now has to live with those consequences. She made bad choices. He didn't have a choice.

What more do you want? Would it have been less tragic if she was a 37 year old gang member? I know what you're saying about throwing away a young life, but she did it to herself and I don't have as much sympathy for that. I would have been more sympathetic if an innocent 17 year old was attacked and killed by a group of thugs, rather than being a part of the group of thugs.

Did you know right from wrong when you were 17? How many armed robberies did you participate in as a teenager? Or did you know it was wrong and choose not to be a criminal?
Patrick JUN 01, 12:21 AM

quote
Originally posted by Formula88:

We get your point, Patrick.

But here's the point you seem to miss. She made those choices.




Good gawd, what do I have to say to demonstrate I that agree with what you're stating ??!!!

Didn't I just post the following?


quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

...and who then end up dying because of their own stupidity?




Maybe I should start a thread entitled, "Ten against one. Fair fight? Perhaps not." You can then all line up and take a swing.
Scott-Wa JUN 01, 12:48 AM
I for one understood your point Patrick... just didn't see a reason to jump into that particular flamefest, dumb ass comments have been flying in a bunch of threads and only so much stomping one can do in a day.
Uaana JUN 01, 12:59 AM
Patrick,

I don't think you get our point, I haven't thrown any negs your way not sure why somone would.

Honestly I don't care about the girl, one way or another. Is that what you were looking for?

Only tragedy in this is that of the former Marine who has to have his life disrupted by scum. He will probably have to move now that the press has announced his address to the rest of the scum in ATL.

I will not see her as some kind of poor victim innocently led astray from the straight and narrow. Or how we as a people failed her "It takes a village" and all that BS.
Maybe if we started punishing those who commit crimes instead of the catch and release programs we have now there might be more incentive to not break the law. Too bad others think if we throw money at the problem and create outreach programs and nighttime basketball courts the problem will be solved.
Shyster JUN 01, 01:09 AM

quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
Talk about mob mentality…

I simply made a comment about how it was a pregnant teenage girl who was killed (according to the news story at the time).

You know, it’s one thing to disagree with someone here on this forum, even if in this case a bunch of you guys have intentionally or unintentionally misinterpreted what I’ve stated.

If it turns out that none of you wish to have an open discussion here based on facts…



But if it turns out that your "facts" are illusory, what do you expect? Martin was female. She was young. However, "[c]ontrary to earlier reports an autopsy showed that Martin was not pregnant when she was killed." (from your link).

She did, however, choose to be a thug, and to join with others in threatening the life of one who not only had not threatened her, but who had volunteered to protect her freedom. She joined in threatening one who deliberately ran when he could have fought.

On the other hand, your second post was deliberately inflammatory, and disregarded "fact": "Sorry if it wrecks the illusion of some 6'5" 350lb muscle-bound guy being handed his ass," you said. Nowhere in any story are there any reports of a real, or illusory, "6'5" 350lb muscle-bound guy." What "illusion" were you trying to torpedo?

Fact: Very, very close to 1/2 of humanity is below-average.
Fact: People figure out ways to kill themselves every day.
Fact: There's no indication that this former Marine asked to have this situation foisted on him, and every indication he tried to avoid it.

Given the above, I think you set yourself up for the flame war. (In case you're wondering, I'm not one of your new "neg's." I've yet to "-" anyone, even a couple of people who I thought richly deserved it. I figure that the trolls will go away if we all just have the intelligence to quit responding to them. People who need attention and don't get it tend to go elsewhere. ) Yes, you may be right that there was a certain amount of "projection" bravado in the original post. Was it worth ticking off everyone to point that out in a sarcastic fashion? In my opinion, no. Maybe it was, to you, and if so, I defer to your opinion, but I would suggest that you not complain about the result.
DRA JUN 01, 01:37 AM
I could care less if it was a girl/woman/boy/man, could care less if she was holding a shotgun or holding the door open. It's my opinion that if they are positively identified they should be lined up and shot. I used to think every person in this world had some part of them that was good and was worth working to save. Now I see 9 year old kids destroying their neighborhoods, being initiated into gangs. I see 5 teenage boys beating and robbing and 87 year old woman in her home and taking her S.S. money ( I had to come board up her door that they kicked in at 1 in the morning). I see a boy try to steal a car while me, the apartment complex manager, and the owner of the vehicle are 10feet away! The owner of the Vehicle beat the guy to within an inch of his life all the while yelling, "you try to steal my $h!T, my $hit that I work for". I see at least 1 incident a WEEK! And I have to clean up after the trash! For the most part they choose the weakest, oldest, most vernable people they can to attack. They have kids ride around on bicycles and watch peoples schedules so the can break in while they are away. These are duplexes and the neigbors will never come forward and identify the perps, one told me he knows who's behind a lot of the crime in the area but will not say who because they do not bother him! The police come, take a report, give you a case number, and leave.
Maybe we should just all look the other way, maybe we should give these people MORE goverment assistance. Maybe we should get personally involved and try to reach out to them, feel free, you'll most likely draw back a bloody nub.
Good ridance to her, and Patrick, I have two daughters, at some point they have to make choices and live or die with them. I wouldn't feel a damn thing for the girl, but I might for her parents if they had truly tried to raise their daughter to make the right choices (an unknown factor at this point!).
Debating the rights and wrongs of a situation is just great but real life sucks!

[This message has been edited by DRA (edited 06-01-2006).]