Who else got an abusive e-mail from bookster? (Page 8/20)
Vonov OCT 07, 07:28 AM

quote
Originally posted by MstangsBware:


LOL-- I really dont see how I fit into this group, being that I have only posted my opinion in very few threads. I am mainly on the Forum to sale parts that I have compiled and come across to ppl in need of them(which I sale cheaper than you can find else where). I would say, if I asked everyone that I have sold parts to give me a plus, then I would be well into the green. But I am not all about the rating system, being that it is corrupt and can be played in such a way to ban members that are not liked by others because of there opinions and thoughts. Yes, I agree some ppl on the list are trolls and take over every thread but I myself have posted in only a few threads expressing my opinion and then taking the quotes I recieve back and turning them into a flaming party. But with me only stating my opinion(which I always have proof to back it up), thats just a right that I have with this being a public forum. The quotes I recieve back have been alot harsher than the opinions I have given. The rating system only works for ppl that do not express there opinions in fear of getting a negative or for well known vendors who get back from other Forum members wether that member even has a clue about whats going on. People on the Forum tend to lean toward the words of whatever side has the most going for them, basically saying, well if he is giving that member a negative or feels that way about the subject at hand, then I should too. Once again this is how I veiw the whole rating system and how it works, but again this is my own personal opinion. I have talked to several ppl in chat that have bashed me in a thread and they never knew who I was. You can ask the ones that do know me from chat, that I am just a person with an opinion that is not scared to express it. So with that being said, either one of two things will happen, either my rating will go up or down, but for me either way is fine.


M/B, it's one thing to candidly express your opinion. I, and very few others on this forum, have no problem with that. The problem, as I see it, is that most of the members of the so-called redbar brigade take it upon themselves to attack, harass, abuse, and put down, in the vilest fashion, any other member who expresses an opinion which disagrees with their way of thinking or doing things. If another member happens to like big slow-revving V-8's, that's his prerogative. Recently there was a thread about fartcan cars, in which I caught myself stuck in the same "ain't no substitute for cubic inches" bashing of the four-banger crowd...and then remembered one of my all-time favorite cars I used to own, a 944S, which would eat most V-8's for breakfast on top end. That thread got pretty ugly. I apologized for my part in it. There are as many ways of achieving horsepower as there are people out there to think up new ones. The thing is, we all like to put our horsepower and hearts into one little car once made by GM. We ought to be supporting each other, but it's hard to focus on doing that, when someone who wants to rehash a two year old gripe hijacks a thread.
If you have a difference of opinion with someone, there are ways of pointing out another way of looking at something, without calling someone a homo because they happen to like a certain style taillight, or telling them they're a moron because they wanna put a four banger in their Fiero.
One more thing to think about. You may not be as anonymous as you think behind your keyboard. That punch in the nose that you may have richly earned (and I'm not talking to you, M/B, as far as I know, you've been courteous in your arguments here) may catch up with you one way or another. There are too many ways to mess with people electronically in our interconnected electronic world, for me to want to piss off anyone out there; I'd really rather not find my bank account with an FBI terrorism freeze on it placed there by some hacker I pissed off here on Pennock's...
Tony

------------------

"He who does not oppose evil, commands that it be done!" ----Leonardo da Vinci

Tytehead OCT 07, 07:38 AM
Why is it that the people who say the ratings system is corrupt or that they don't give a ratz azz about the ratings system always sem to be the people who have a hard time playing with others and therefore have the red ratings bar. It has become apparent to me that certain members of the forum just don't know how to express their opinions without denigrating others or turning it into a personal attack if someone disagrees with them. I can understand that to an extent in politicaland religios threas, but it just doesn't make sense when we are discussion how to preserve, improve and/or change a vehicle we al enjoy.

I tend to stay out of contentious threads because I do enough arguing, debating and negotiatingat work, and at home with a wife and four kids for that matter, so I don't an to do it here, but I am doing it now because, like alot of people here, I spend a good portion of my fre time, and some work time to be honest, checking here for the latest news.

I have nothing against any of the people in Cali kid's list above. I have found many of their posts informative on ways to improve performance/looks/whatever,, but I have als noticed that they cannot seem to express their opinion or disagree with another point of view without trying to start a flame war, and that never made sense to me. Now to be fair, I have seen a few of the members of the forum that I respect and/or consider friends get into it and result to name calling and personal attacks, Archie and Firefox come to mind, but in my experience, that usually only occurs after they have been pushed to the point of exasperation due to attacks on thier business, in Archie's case, or incessent attacks on their sensibilities, ala Firefox and Fiero5. With the "Red Bar Brigade", the only thing necessary to set many of them off is a differing opinion, nothing more.

Additionally, it has become very clear that those who justify their actions by claims that this is a public forum and they have a right to free speech do not seem to under stand that every public forum has restrictions on and the right to free speech is not absolute and does not apply in a private forum such as this. While it is on the internet, it i still owned by Cliff therefore it is not part of the public sector and he can restrict your "right" to frre speech any way he sees fit while you are using this forum. In that regard, I have never seen anyone try to restrict the opinion of others or what they have to offer (accept for the occasional "STFU"), just the manner in which they offer it. I mean really, do you think you can walk into a public arena and just do anything without repercussions because it is a public forum? If so, the next time you are at a public sporting event, drop your pants when you are on the jumbotron and see how that works out for you. Then when you get arrested or throw out, claim they have no right to do that because it is a public forum. All civilized social forums has recognized rules of conduct, Cliff has his for this forum. They are there for everyone to read and you agreed to them when you registered as a member. It just seems that it is time to start following them.

Now, I know that the disruptive members of the forum who read this are probably going to ignore it, or possibly I may catch a few negs for this opinion, even though I tried to express myself without being abusive or offensive. Negs do matter to me because I don't want to be banned from the forum as it is an important reference are for me, where I have learned alot and made a few good friends, an hope to make more.

The above expresses the personal opinions and observations of me...ignore them, agree with them, disregard them or fold them into a paper hat for all I care.

Finally, I would like to thank Cliff for taking the time and effort to provide this forum for us. It is a fantastic tool for anyone who has a fiero to learn about them and their capabilities and to make friends and share ideas with others with a similr obsession/passion/sickness. I had only had my fiero for two days when three people had informed me of this site and I have visited regularly since that time. So thanks again and keep up the good work and the evenhanded approach to how you moderate this forum.

Okay...Rant and thanks to Cliff (or as some will nodoubtedly call it, azz kissing) over...back to our regularly scheduled programming.

Fiero5 OCT 07, 08:36 AM
This has been mentioned before and I thought this would be a good time to bring it up again.
Yes it seems that we have had a run of members that have been real pains in the neck lately and certainly deserved what they got, but we still have to remember that they are only a certain percentage of the majority on here and I think for the most part the ratings system should do a pretty good job of keeping it that way. But since apparently the ratings we hand out have no time limit, we all need to try and remember to go back to our ratings every so often and review/update them. Relook at some of the ratings we have given out in the past and decide if any of them are still fair, good or bad, to a particular member based on more recent events. The idea of the ratings is as I understand it, that if a particular member is being a jerk (of course everyone has their own level of what they think that is as well as their own breaking point I'm sure) then each member can rate them accordingly. If a member is being helpfull in some way, made us chuckle, posted an article, shared pics, sold something that went well, etc etc then again each member can rate them acccordingly as well. But it is also our responsibility to make sure that a past rating is still fair and up to date for any given member. If you felt once that someone was being a jerk and rated them a neg and since they have not been that way, maybe they should be at least given a neutral or even a plus for what you see as a better attitude. I would guess that a negative at times is much easier to get and a lot harder to get changed.
I wonder how many members think to go thru their ratings system every once in awhile and update it?
MstangsBware OCT 07, 08:43 AM

quote
Originally posted by linenoise:


Well from the color of you ratings bar I would guess that whne you speak your mind you don't do it in sucha way as to repect the other users feelings.


Like I said I have only expressed my opinion in a few threads, from my opinion, it turned into a flame match from the comments I recieved back from what I posted. Yes- maybe I did disrepect or hurt someones feelings but thats usally what opinions do to ppl that cant take constructive critism. I am pretty sure I recieved most of the red from the WCF thread that turned into ppl threaten me because I useded there quotes they posted and turned them around against them. I am not here to argue with ppl but I will give my opinion when I think I should.

MstangsBware OCT 07, 08:54 AM

quote
Originally posted by Vonov:


M/B, it's one thing to candidly express your opinion. I, and very few others on this forum, have no problem with that. The problem, as I see it, is that most of the members of the so-called redbar brigade take it upon themselves to attack, harass, abuse, and put down, in the vilest fashion, any other member who expresses an opinion which disagrees with their way of thinking or doing things. If another member happens to like big slow-revving V-8's, that's his prerogative. Recently there was a thread about fartcan cars, in which I caught myself stuck in the same "ain't no substitute for cubic inches" bashing of the four-banger crowd...and then remembered one of my all-time favorite cars I used to own, a 944S, which would eat most V-8's for breakfast on top end. That thread got pretty ugly. I apologized for my part in it. There are as many ways of achieving horsepower as there are people out there to think up new ones. The thing is, we all like to put our horsepower and hearts into one little car once made by GM. We ought to be supporting each other, but it's hard to focus on doing that, when someone who wants to rehash a two year old gripe hijacks a thread.
If you have a difference of opinion with someone, there are ways of pointing out another way of looking at something, without calling someone a homo because they happen to like a certain style taillight, or telling them they're a moron because they wanna put a four banger in their Fiero.
One more thing to think about. You may not be as anonymous as you think behind your keyboard. That punch in the nose that you may have richly earned (and I'm not talking to you, M/B, as far as I know, you've been courteous in your arguments here) may catch up with you one way or another. There are too many ways to mess with people electronically in our interconnected electronic world, for me to want to piss off anyone out there; I'd really rather not find my bank account with an FBI terrorism freeze on it placed there by some hacker I pissed off here on Pennock's...
Tony



This is why I posted my commment above. What makes me a part of that group? I can think of only two threads that I have turned into a flame match(and that has been months ago) and off hand I can think of a dozen or more threads that others in that group have turned into flames just in the last week. So--my rating is based off two threads that I got ugly in, this kinda tells me that the rating system does not work the way it was intended to and works in the way of--Follow the Leader--. I see it if it takes 50 votes to get your rating to appear(which mine just did) that means out of the two threads that turned ugly, that almost 50 ppl had to give me a rating. I really dont see that adding up right but maybe its just me. Once again this is only my opinion and how I see the rating system.

MstangsBware OCT 07, 09:02 AM

quote
Originally posted by Tytehead:

Why is it that the people who say the ratings system is corrupt or that they don't give a ratz azz about the ratings system always sem to be the people who have a hard time playing with others and therefore have the red ratings bar. It has become apparent to me that certain members of the forum just don't know how to express their opinions without denigrating others or turning it into a personal attack if someone disagrees with them. I can understand that to an extent in politicaland religios threas, but it just doesn't make sense when we are discussion how to preserve, improve and/or change a vehicle we al enjoy.

I tend to stay out of contentious threads because I do enough arguing, debating and negotiatingat work, and at home with a wife and four kids for that matter, so I don't an to do it here, but I am doing it now because, like alot of people here, I spend a good portion of my fre time, and some work time to be honest, checking here for the latest news.

I have nothing against any of the people in Cali kid's list above. I have found many of their posts informative on ways to improve performance/looks/whatever,, but I have als noticed that they cannot seem to express their opinion or disagree with another point of view without trying to start a flame war, and that never made sense to me. Now to be fair, I have seen a few of the members of the forum that I respect and/or consider friends get into it and result to name calling and personal attacks, Archie and Firefox come to mind, but in my experience, that usually only occurs after they have been pushed to the point of exasperation due to attacks on thier business, in Archie's case, or incessent attacks on their sensibilities, ala Firefox and Fiero5. With the "Red Bar Brigade", the only thing necessary to set many of them off is a differing opinion, nothing more.

Additionally, it has become very clear that those who justify their actions by claims that this is a public forum and they have a right to free speech do not seem to under stand that every public forum has restrictions on and the right to free speech is not absolute and does not apply in a private forum such as this. While it is on the internet, it i still owned by Cliff therefore it is not part of the public sector and he can restrict your "right" to frre speech any way he sees fit while you are using this forum. In that regard, I have never seen anyone try to restrict the opinion of others or what they have to offer (accept for the occasional "STFU"), just the manner in which they offer it. I mean really, do you think you can walk into a public arena and just do anything without repercussions because it is a public forum? If so, the next time you are at a public sporting event, drop your pants when you are on the jumbotron and see how that works out for you. Then when you get arrested or throw out, claim they have no right to do that because it is a public forum. All civilized social forums has recognized rules of conduct, Cliff has his for this forum. They are there for everyone to read and you agreed to them when you registered as a member. It just seems that it is time to start following them.

Now, I know that the disruptive members of the forum who read this are probably going to ignore it, or possibly I may catch a few negs for this opinion, even though I tried to express myself without being abusive or offensive. Negs do matter to me because I don't want to be banned from the forum as it is an important reference are for me, where I have learned alot and made a few good friends, an hope to make more.

The above expresses the personal opinions and observations of me...ignore them, agree with them, disregard them or fold them into a paper hat for all I care.

Finally, I would like to thank Cliff for taking the time and effort to provide this forum for us. It is a fantastic tool for anyone who has a fiero to learn about them and their capabilities and to make friends and share ideas with others with a similr obsession/passion/sickness. I had only had my fiero for two days when three people had informed me of this site and I have visited regularly since that time. So thanks again and keep up the good work and the evenhanded approach to how you moderate this forum.

Okay...Rant and thanks to Cliff (or as some will nodoubtedly call it, azz kissing) over...back to our regularly scheduled programming.


Once again, I only have two threads that I have gotten ugly in and some how have became part of the Bad Member Group. I am not understanding how this could occur in only two bad threads. Unless it was follow the leader on the rating or someone has found away to rate a person several times under differant names(which I know it more than likly has been done).
California Kid OCT 07, 10:48 AM

quote
Originally posted by MstangsBware:

Once again, I only have two threads that I have gotten ugly in and some how have became part of the Bad Member Group.



Let me clairfy that I only selected members showing heavy negative rating (most of them, I find very abusive in their posts) on a quick browse through the Forum. Appears what you've said above is true, I did a quick review of some of your posts (didn't locate the ugly one's you referred to), you certainly don't seem to be the type of person who gets abusive like some of the others I listed. All I can say is, whatever you posted in those few threads must have really stirred up quite a few people, for them to jump to the rate me bar. While I feel the rating system works pretty darn good, you may be the exception in this case, if so, that's unfortunate, and I hope it changes quickly for you.

[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 10-07-2004).]

Songman OCT 07, 11:08 AM
The great thing about the rating system is that it gives people plenty of chances to clean up their act. The gauge gives you a clear representation of how your words sit with others on the forum. People always go to the "I expressed my opinions and got negatives" theory. Maybe the people who think that should look at not WHAT they say but HOW they say it. Name calling and other abuses are normally not tolerated in any sort of group activity. Why should it be tolerated here?

In most cases I see here, when people start to get toward the negative side of their ratings bar they tend to act worse. This is the time when they should be looking inward to see if thier attitude (not opinions) is offending people enough to cause this. By the time they get to the flashing red light, they have blown through plenty of opportunities to fix the problem but chose not to. That's why I am against people being allowed a 'second chance' on the forum. They've already blown through plenty of chances to change but they chose not to. Why should we really believe they will be any different if allowed back? In nine out of ten instances, they come back and are quiet long enough to appease Cliff and then they go right back to the way they were.. But only now they have the smug attitude of "HaHa, you thought you could get rid of me?".

I really hate that this thread turned into something it was totally not intended to be (again, all because of the troublemakers taking it off in the wrong direction) but if it helps the forum in the long run, I'm all for it. Maybe some things are being brought to light here and more people will be willing to take out the trash.

USFiero OCT 07, 11:20 AM

quote
Originally posted by California Kid:

Let's see, what do all these guys have in common ? :

Black88GT
Bookster
donk316
fieroz34tdc
greg
Howard_Sacks
Lex
Mastermind
MstangsBware
The Punisher

Bad Boys of the Forum !


Pennocks gotten boring? Life a little dull? Can't find a hornet's nest to poke? Antagonize one of these guys by provoking them in a post! It's easy and fun, and best of all pain free! I can see the new 'red bar battalion' slogan: Mess with me and watch the meter flash for all of us!!!
California Kid OCT 07, 11:26 AM
Songman, I hope you didn't take offence to me jumping in here and posting. The fact of the matter is that myself and quite a few others are a little feed up with the amount of "Garbage" being posted on this Forum. If some of us don't step forward, and say something about it, it will continue to increase. Some may think " well don't read the thread ", my position is that you're going to read it, to determine if there's anything of value, you can't make assumptions unless you read it. As Cliff stated, it is up to all the Members to control the "House", so I'm just posting my opinions based on other inputs to this thread.