The economy, is it good or bad. (Page 71/181)
Red88FF OCT 12, 07:23 PM
Hahahahahahahahahahaha hehehehehehohohohohoh I needed that! hahahah
Phranc OCT 12, 08:55 PM

quote
Originally posted by JazzMan:

The economy only needs to be portrayed as rosy and healthy until if and when the Dems get a president into office. At that point the portrayals will swap, I predict less than 60 days, then the fall will be blamed on the Dems even though it takes years of mismanagement to create the crap that's gonna hit the fan soon. Personally I hope the Dems lose the presidential election next year, that way cause and effect will be clear enough to ensure that no Republican will hold any office of significance for the next half century. That'll give the Dems enough time to clean up the mess if there's any way to clean it up at all. My gut feeling is that ultimately the fall will be as bad as the Great Depression in some ways and far worse in others, and the end result will be that we'll become a third-world country with no particular importance in the world. I hate for that to happen, don't want it to happen, but you know what they say, wish in one hand and sh*t in the other and see which one fills up first.

JazzMan



So are you saying when Bush cut taxes and tax revenue increased it wasn't really because of the tax cuts but because of Clinton? And when Clinton over saw the dot com boom and all was good it was really Bush/Reagen's doing?
84Bill OCT 15, 05:11 PM
Damn... hit another bump.. This road sux... anyone know of a good paver for hire cheap?

Oil smashes $86 for the first time
3:28pm: Crude prices reach record high on worries about declining oil inventories, OPEC production warning; Turkey-Iraq tension.


Looks like the world markets.. europe in particular took yet another hit... all is fine fine fine...

Europe
Index Change %Change Level Last Update *
Belgium Bel 20 -30.08 -0.66% 4,501.98 10/15 6:05pm
Europe DJ Stoxx -34.06 -0.87% 3,895.83 10/15 7:00pm
Europe Euronext 100 -7.11 -0.68% 1,037.92 10/15 6:07pm
Europe Euronext 150 -3.67 -0.19% 1,945.15 10/15 6:07pm
France CAC -36.51 -0.62% 5,807.44 10/15 6:10pm
France SBF 80 -42.59 -0.60% 7,002.43 10/15 6:12pm
France SBF 120 -26.52 -0.62% 4,238.00 10/15 6:12pm
Germany DAX -71.79 -0.89% 7,969.47 10/15 6:32pm
Germany MDAX -56.69 -0.53% 10,698.40 10/15 6:32pm
Germany TECDAX -0.70 -0.07% 1,013.97 10/15 6:32pm
Netherlands AEX -6.07 -1.09% 553.07 10/15 6:05pm
Norway BRIX -4.09 -0.11% 3,813.53 10/15 11:56am
Norway OSE Industry -2.64 -0.16% 463.92 10/15 4:28pm
Sweden OMX -7.40 -0.58% 1,260.30 10/12 12:00am
Sweden OMSX All Share -2.28 -0.56% 405.53 10/12 12:00am
UK FTSE 100 -86.20 -1.28% 6,644.50 10/15 4:35pm
UK FTSE All Shares -43.12 -1.25% 3,411.41 10/15 4:36pm
UK FTSE Eurotop -26.98 -0.81% 3,321.00 10/15 4:45pm
UK FTSE Techmark -11.50 -0.66% 1,735.01 10/15 4:36pm
Americas
Index Change %Change Level Last Update *
Canada TSE 300 -64.58 -0.45% 14,231.28 10/15 4:54pm
Canada CDNX +52.51 +1.77% 3,014.41 10/15 4:54pm
Canada S&P/TSX 60 -4.83 -0.58% 824.08 10/15 4:45pm
84Bill OCT 15, 05:13 PM
The culprit(s).

Stocks get slammed
Financial sector leads decliners on Citigroup's weak profits, debt rescue fund implications; crude hits all-time high above $86 a barrel.

Banks try to stave off debt shock
madcurl OCT 15, 06:10 PM

quote
Originally posted by madcurl:


Meanwhile, China Life Incsurance (LFC) @ $98.77 and climbing. China mightbe making bad tyoys for U.S. babies, but the Chinese people do need life Insurance, right? If you can't beat them....join them and ride the wave up.



LFC still holding onto past gains @ 96.03. China index stock FXI at $202.94...wow! Not bad if you got in under $100 bucks in three months flat or even @131 per share. A few bucks lost @109.71 RIMM (somebody rated it over-rated). CSCO still holding @32.79

[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 10-15-2007).]

JazzMan OCT 15, 06:31 PM
.

[This message has been edited by JazzMan (edited 12-04-2008).]

Red88FF OCT 15, 07:48 PM

quote
Originally posted by JazzMan:

I don't think the stock market is a really good indicator of economic health, if for no other reason than if the income/wealth distribution is the same for stockholders as it is for the general population it means that 90% of the value is owned by less than 5% of the people and the remaining 10% is spread out so thin among the bottom 90% of the people that it can't really make a meaningful difference in their lives. I know that I don't, and can't afford to, own any stocks so this market isn't helping me at all in any direct sense, i.e., can I buy groceries this week or not.



123 started this thread using the then plunging stock market as one reason to think we were all going into the gutter, which is why we have been hashing out the market for 18 pages now, with almost daily updates of gloom and doom.

The way is affects all of us is in consumer confidents and the fact that just about everybodies retirement is tied to it in one way or another. It also has to do with the value of a corp. and their ability to borrow etc. to keep the masses employed.

quote
Originally posted by JazzMan:

Oh, and Greenspan should have reigned in the dot-com bubble, he even said so himself, but I guess Clinton could have ordered him to do that. Wait, does the fed Chairman take orders from the President? I honestly don't know.

JazzMan



I don't believe the Pres. has any control over the chairman other than the initial appointment.

[This message has been edited by Red88FF (edited 10-15-2007).]

84fiero123 OCT 15, 08:07 PM
I did not start this thread only on the stock markets plunge but on the housing climbing bankruptcies.

The stock market is one of the things I pointed out to show how I thought the economy was going down the tubes but I also included the rise in bankruptcies in this country as part of my first thread.

It was not just the stock market, even though some have looked at it this way.

And some have picked the housing boom as a good thing until all the bankruptcies. Then blaming them on peoples own stupidity. While that may be true in some cases, it is not true in all. Yet they continue to increase.

quote
Originally posted by 84fiero123:
The economy, is it good or bad.
Are we headed into a recession?
I see on the one hand the stock market is taking a dive,
Stocks Plunge; Dow Down More Than 310
Email this Story

Jul 26, 6:33 PM (ET)

By JOE BEL BRUNO

(AP) Trader Peter Tuchman rubs his head as he works or the floor of the New York Stock Exchange,...
Full Image

p {margin:12px 0px 0px 0px;}
NEW YORK (AP) - Wall Street suffered one of its worst losses of 2007 Thursday, leading a global stock market plunge as investors succumbed to months of worry about the mortgage and corporate lending markets. The Dow Jones industrials closed down more than 310 points after earlier skidding nearly 450.
Investors who had been able for months to largely shrug off discomfort about subprime mortgage problems and a more difficult environment for corporate borrowing finally decided it was time to sell after the Commerce Department issued another disappointing home sales report.

http://apnews.excite.com/ar...70726/D8QKI33O0.html

The housing market is down the tubes.

Investor Losses Seen in Housing Slump


Email this Story

Jul 26, 6:50 PM (ET)

By ALEX VEIGA

(AP) A home is offered for sale in Riverside, Calif. Monday, July 23 2007. Mortgage defaults in...
Full Image

p {margin:12px 0px 0px 0px;}
LOS ANGELES (AP) - The national housing slump could lead to billions of dollars in losses for Wall Street investors as it drags on for at least another year and mortgage defaults increase, economists said Thursday.
The outlook on eroding credit quality in the U.S. mortgage market by Moody's Economy.com anticipates that more than 1.2 million first mortgage loans will default this year and another 1.3 million will follow next year.
That compares with about 900,000 defaults last year and about 800,000 in 2005, Mark Zandi, the Web site's chief economist, said in a conference call.
Hedge fund investors will lose between $100 billion and $125 billion as a result, he said.


"We do expect losses in the subprime market to be very severe," Zandi said

http://apnews.excite.com/ar...70726/D8QKIBC00.html

Yet the government says everything is doing great.

Economy Growth Is Best in a Year


Email this Story

Jul 27, 9:14 AM (ET)

By JEANNINE AVERSA

(AP) A newly constructed home waits for an owner in Bainbridge Twp., Ohio on Thursday, July 26, 2007. ...
Full Image

p {margin:12px 0px 0px 0px;}
WASHINGTON (AP) - The economy snapped out of a lethargic spell and grew at a 3.4 percent pace in the second quarter, the strongest showing in more than a year. A revival in business spending was a main force behind the energized performance.
The new reading on gross domestic product, released by the Commerce Department on Friday, marked a big improvement from the first three months of this year, when economic growth skidded to a near halt at just a 0.6 percent pace, the slowest in more than four years.

http://apnews.excite.com/ar...70727/D8QKV0500.html

What do you think?




------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

84Bill OCT 16, 07:00 AM
Like sand through an hour glass.. the fall continues.

Bernanke has warning for Wall Street
In a speech in New York, the Fed chairman said the central bank's big interest rate cut last month has helped but that the Fed can't 'insulate investors from risk.'
October 15 2007: 10:24 PM EDT

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- In a speech to the New York Economic Club Monday night, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke said the central bank's rate cut in September has shown signs of success, but cautioned that lenders and investors must bear responsibility for financial decisions that caused the subprime mortgage meltdown.

Junk mortgages under the microscope
A close-up of one deal shows how subprime mortgages went bad, says Fortune's Allan Sloan.
FORTUNE Magazine
By Allan Sloan, Fortune senior editor-at-large
October 16 2007: 5:59 AM EDT

(Fortune Magazine) -- It's getting hard to wrap your brain around subprime mortgages, Wall Street's fancy name for junk home loans. There's so much subprime stuff floating around - more than $1.5 trillion of loans, maybe $200 billion of losses, thousands of families facing foreclosure, umpteen politicians yapping - that it's like the federal budget: It's just too big to be understandable.

And the world markets.. doing well this morning.
Asia Pacific & Australia
Index Change %Change Level Last Update *
Australia ASX 100 -39.50 -0.72% 5,417.30 10/16 5:00pm
Australia ASX All Ords -40.30 -0.60% 6,711.30 10/16 5:00pm
Australia ASX Mid-cap 50 -44.70 -0.66% 6,733.10 10/16 5:00pm
Hong Kong Hang Seng -586.23 -1.98% 28,954.55 10/16 5:50pm
Hong Kong HSCC Red Chip -13.74 -0.22% 6,345.12 10/16 4:23pm
Japan Nikkei 225 -220.23 -1.27% 17,137.92 10/16 4:30pm
Europe
Index Change %Change Level Last Update *
Belgium Bel 20 -38.09 -0.85% 4,463.89 10/16 12:35pm
Europe DJ Stoxx -43.96 -1.13% 3,851.87 10/16 12:35pm
Europe Euronext 100 -7.80 -0.75% 1,030.12 10/16 12:35pm
Europe Euronext 150 -17.36 -0.89% 1,927.79 10/16 12:35pm
France CAC -51.94 -0.89% 5,755.50 10/16 12:35pm
France SBF 80 -74.43 -1.06% 6,928.00 10/16 12:35pm
France SBF 120 -38.92 -0.92% 4,199.08 10/16 12:35pm
Germany DAX -33.00 -0.41% 7,936.47 10/16 12:35pm
Germany MDAX -188.81 -1.76% 10,509.59 10/16 12:35pm
Germany TECDAX -13.52 -1.33% 1,000.45 10/16 12:35pm
Netherlands AEX -4.22 -0.76% 548.85 10/16 12:35pm
Norway BRIX -4.09 -0.11% 3,813.53 10/15 12:00am
Norway OSE Industry -6.75 -0.40% 457.17 10/16 12:35pm
Sweden OMX -10.65 -0.85% 1,249.65 10/15 12:00am
Sweden OMSX All Share -2.62 -0.65% 402.91 10/15 12:00am
UK FTSE 100 -36.50 -0.55% 6,608.00 10/16 11:35am
UK FTSE All Shares -17.48 -0.51% 3,393.93 10/16 11:35am
UK FTSE Eurotop -30.89 -0.93% 3,290.11 10/16 11:35am
UK FTSE Techmark -8.78 -0.51% 1,726.23 10/16 11:35am
Americas
Index Change %Change Level Last Update *
Canada TSE 300 -64.58 -0.45% 14,231.28 10/15 12:00am
Canada CDNX +52.51 +1.77% 3,014.41 10/15 12:00am
Canada S&P/TSX 60 -4.83 -0.58% 824.08 10/15 12:00am
Pyrthian OCT 16, 09:25 AM
and, dont forget the bleeding hole in the USA's economy. $200,000 per minute. to rebuild Iraq. how many folk here would like that in one year? this is one minute.....