Romney's Insensitivity to LGBT People (Page 7/15)
olejoedad SEP 12, 01:39 PM

quote
Originally posted by WhiteDevil88:


So how do you feel about people who divorce? I think that undermines the value of marriage much more then a couple who can share outfits getting married.



Its a shame that promises are too easily made, and just as easily broken. Marriage, like religion, requires a great deal of faith and understanding, as well as patience. And above all, commitment.

In my own personal experience, our forty years was not always smooth, but even when things got really tense, there was still the promise that we made to each other and the faith that somehow we would survive the issue and come out better for it.
olejoedad SEP 12, 01:42 PM

quote
Originally posted by WhiteDevil88:


How so? I truly have the hope for you that you can join the lord in paradise. Sooner the better.



Thanks for the kind wishes. Should I look for you there?
jaskispyder SEP 12, 01:44 PM

quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:


All religions have a God. Their marriages are accepted in their cultures, who am I to object?

The government can do whatever, its of little consequence to me. I am not easily offended.

Marriage is a term used fro a man and a woman making promises to each other in the presence of God.



Well, there is only one "God" but many "gods". It is your use of the word "God" that leads me to believe that you only recognize one god.

So, the government should be recognizing same-sex marriages? I could start a church for LGBT (well, there probably is one already) and I could marry people. So my religion has said they are married, so the government should recognize it, correct? Nope... there is the problem, our government still ties marriage to Christian views (for the most part). The word "marriage" should be removed and everyone should just have a civil union (for the government).

olejoedad SEP 12, 01:44 PM

quote
Originally posted by Pyrthian:


no it is not. people got married long before "the church".



Don't make the mistake of confusing religion and the church.

They are not the same thing.
WhiteDevil88 SEP 12, 01:45 PM

quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:


Thanks for the kind wishes. Should I look for you there?



Nope. Don't believe in it. When I die, my energy will return to the universe from whence it came. No stranger then believing in a white bearded vindictive old man in the sky.
jaskispyder SEP 12, 01:46 PM

quote
Originally posted by fierofetish:


Hmmmm...so who married them then Pyrth? 'Marriage is the act of the joining together of a man and a woman in the holy state of matrimony, before and in the presence of God'




not really.

"Although the institution of marriage pre-dates reliable recorded history, many cultures have legends concerning the origins of marriage. The way in which a marriage is conducted and its rules and ramifications has changed over time, as has the institution itself, depending on the culture or demographic of the time.[15] Various cultures have had their own theories on the origin of marriage. One example may lie in a man's need for assurance as to paternity of his children. He might therefore be willing to pay a bride price or provide for a woman in exchange for exclusive sexual access.[16] Legitimacy is the consequence of this transaction rather than its motivation. In Comanche society, married women work harder, lose sexual freedom, and do not seem to obtain any benefit from marriage.[17] But nubile women are a source of jealousy and strife in the tribe, so they are given little choice other than to get married. "In almost all societies, access to women is institutionalized in some way so as to moderate the intensity of this competition."[18] Forms of group marriage which involve more than one member of each sex, and therefore are not either polygyny or polyandry, have existed in history. However, these forms of marriage are extremely rare. Of the 250 societies reported by the American anthropologist George P. Murdock in 1949, only the Caingang of Brazil had any group marriages at all.[19]

Various marriage practices have existed throughout the world. In some societies an individual is limited to being in one such couple at a time (monogamy), while other cultures allow a male to have more than one wife (polygyny) or, less commonly, a female to have more than one husband (polyandry). Some societies also allow marriage between two males or two females. Societies frequently have other restrictions on marriage based on the ages of the participants, pre-existing kinship, and membership in religious or other social groups."

Wiki....
tbone42 SEP 12, 02:28 PM
LBGT people will have to deal with God, if thats the case, when they are dead. Here in this country we are supposed to have equal rights under law and seperation of church and state. The discussion is moot when it comes to religion. There are no lbgt people asking for "special treatment", just the same rights you and i have olejoedad.

For the record my best friend in the world is transgendered... after a lifetime of paying taxes and obeying laws in this country, why should he be treated any different than a heterosexual in the eyes of the law? He's not asking to be SPECIAL, he is asking to be treated like anyone else in regards to laws that govern him, you and me.

People should not be second class citizens because of who they love or who they are attracted to. And don't give me that "next people will be marrying their dogs" crap, either, because dogs cannot sign a marriage license, cannot say I do. Marriage is an institution between to willing human beings, and is a right that should be afforded to anyone in this country who wants to be married to anyone else in this country that is willing and of age. If anyone is so worried about what God may think, maybe they should let him do his/her job and keep their noses out of the business and lives of others-including Romney.

Amyone who decided to use disparaging remarks toward lbgt people here while trying to "intelligently" debate the merits and flaws of gay marriage immediately disqualified themselves. Some people around here need to grow up, seriously.


quote
Originally posted by Formula88:


Are athiests allowed to marry?
Hindus?
Buddhists?




[This message has been edited by tbone42 (edited 09-12-2012).]

FriendGregory SEP 12, 03:03 PM
If not federally recognized, then Social Security, Veterans, and inheritance are unequal.
theBDub SEP 12, 03:54 PM

quote
Originally posted by fierofetish:

'Mommy and Ma..'???? For heaven's sake..you want to play at being Mother Nature and cheat, and produce an offspring in a manner never planned...suck it up and stop whining.
Sounds like two pre-school little girls playing with their dolls, and pretending to be 'Mommy and Daddy'. IT ISN'T A GAME, producing children.
And IF it is so 'protecting and supportive' of one's family...why do so many heterosexual couple never bother with it?
If it costs the Tax Payer MORE to finance these people having their cake and eating it,than they are allowed for their NATURAL BORN CHILDREN, then why the HE!! should they have to fund this selfishness and deviant behaviour of others?
THEY MAKE THE CHOICE...let THEM pay for it. And if they CAN'T, then DON'T FREAKING DO IT.
'Human Rights' now far exceed those that NATURE provided. ANd we wonder why the World is in the mess it IS in. A World that is AWASH with surplus Human Beings...and we are expected to fund even MORE being brought into it by un-natural means. Madness.
Talk about having your cake and eating it, AND taking a bite out of everybody elses' too. Sheer unadulterated madness.



How did they "cheat"? A woman produced a daughter. She is now with a partner. What about that is cheating? How do you know it's a game? The daughter doesn't recognize something as wrong until society tells her that it's wrong. Two parents taking care of a child = two parents taking care of a child. They have just the same capacity for love, affection, intelligence, discipline, parenthood as any other human. Tax payers don't pay for homosexuals to have kids.


quote
Originally posted by ls3mach:

Brennan, doesn't LGBT go against your God?



The act of homosexuality goes against the Christian Bible, among other religions, yes.

But our country is a secular country. We have separation of church and state, though that's not in the constitution it is one of the main drivers for colonizing America. We should all have equal rights under the constitution. What religious beliefs hold after that is of no consequence, and they are allowed to believe whatever they wish as long as it doesn't harm another outside of their religion.


quote
Originally posted by fierofetish:

To a Gay, maybe...but Nature ordains otherwise



Nature wants us to procreate.

So let's just go around and f*** as many girls as we can, impregnate them, and care for the children enough to live to adulthood, where they can then leave the nest and start their own lives.


quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:


The fact that we tolerate their very existance speaks volumes as to the strength our views toward personal freedom. So now they want to be "special"?

Seems to me that God has a 'special' place for them eventually......



They don't want to be special. They want to be equal. That isn't really a hard concept. We don't "tolerate their very existance (sic)". They are people that are attracted to what they are attracted to, and besides that are the same people as we are. Your bigotry is showing.

If the government told you that your marriage that you had with your wife was now taken away, and you were no longer married, what would you think about that?


quote
Originally posted by WhiteDevil88:

I take great comfort in the fact that the generation making the rules now are going to die soon, and the next generation will see how pointless denying homosexuals the right to marry is. Sure, one or two old bigots will last into Strom Thurmond style anachronisms, but society will progress despite the best effort of reactionaries.



I would rather convince them through logic the fallacy of their arguments. I want people to have a change of heart... I don't want it to just wait until the next generation.


quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:


One of our founding principles is the freedom to worship whatever God you choose, unlike those middle eastern countries you mention.



So if we have freedom, why can't LGBT folks get married? Your beliefs aren't consistent.


quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:


No cherry-picking on this end, just a simple statement that is germaine to the original topic of this posting.

I have read Leviticus.

God's views on sodomites are mentioned throughout the Bible. He's not a fan of butt-buddies.



You are cherry-picking. You're saying that God is "not a fan of butt buddies" (), but then say that God allows us to now eat pork. Which Laws are true and which were overridden by Christ?

Not to mention, that shouldn't matter. You already said we have freedom to worship how we choose so therefore LGBT should be able to get married.


quote
Originally posted by WhiteDevil88:


True. That is why we NEED someone like Gary Johnson to take strong independent actions to save the nation financially and counter the extremists. Please make sure Gary makes it on to your states ballot, the two party system is a failure.





Romney's statements have concreted my already solidifying motion to vote for good ol' Gary.


quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:


I am not casting stones. Live the way you want. Just don't ask for special treatment from the government, or special recognition for your sins.



It isn't special treatment.

And you are casting stones. Are you kidding me? You called "them" "butt-buddies".


quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:


Thanks for making the point that LBGT is offensive on all levels.



How do they offend you?


quote
Originally posted by Formula88:


Imagine the outrage if Romney had the audacity to tell her what to tell her daughter. Interfering with the family, etc.

His position on gay marriage aside, no president or politician should care or tell you what to tell your children.
His position on gay marriage is well known. If as president he doesn't want any federal regulation over it and leaves it up to the states, it's a non-issue. I'm sure the LBGT community won't vote for him as governor.



You make a good point. Perhaps either the original woman who relayed the message or just I am reading it with an undertone of complete disregard.

I understood his position on gay marriage. The comments bothered me far more than the position.


quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:


"Civil union" works for me.



But civil union doesn't work for them.

Remember Black-only bathrooms? Sure, a Black man could go to the bathroom same as a White man could. He had the freedom to excrete his wastes under the law. However, was it fair? I hope I don't need to tell you the answer to that. This is the same deal. "Sure, you can have some of the same rights as a marriage, buuuuuttttt we can't allow you that much freedom." They aren't being allowed into the White's only bathroom.


quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:


Sure.

They are all religions, they all have their own god. (The denial of a god still acknowledges the concept.)



So what about religious homosexuals, bisexuals, and trans*?


quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:


Its a shame that promises are too easily made, and just as easily broken. Marriage, like religion, requires a great deal of faith and understanding, as well as patience. And above all, commitment.

In my own personal experience, our forty years was not always smooth, but even when things got really tense, there was still the promise that we made to each other and the faith that somehow we would survive the issue and come out better for it.



That sounds much like a homosexual marriage to me.
fierofetish SEP 12, 04:17 PM
I'll ask you one very simple question Brennan.
If whatever created life wanted us to be able to have children without commitment, without two different components to provide a natural balance to the growth of a child, would we not have all been created as unisex beings...hermaphrodites? We weren't. We were created to PROCREATE with TWO parents, one of each sex, to be able to establish a balanced childhood, puberty and adulthood. NOBODY has the right to bring a child into the World without that natural balance. NOBODY. They don't even have the right to take a chance on the child turning out normal or not.
Babies and young children learn far more by inate senses than direct INSTRUCTION. I know if I had been born and then raised by two women or two men, and deprived of the experience of that NATURAL sexual difference between the two parents, I would be mad as he11.
Want to live and love with somebody of the same sex? Go for it.I couldn't care less. But don't expect the overtime if you don't work a full shift FIRST.
What p1sses me off most is the complaint that WE are insensitive towards homosexuals..when they are even MORE so against heterosexuals and THEIR beliefs.

[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 09-12-2012).]