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| Landscaper Under Fire for Refusing to Work for Gays (Page 59/65) |
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fierofetish
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NOV 16, 06:34 AM
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I have been thinking about all this furore. I have considered my reactions. They have been clarified in my responses to the understanding messages from mant of the people I know,and have great affection for. Instead of re-typing it all again, I have decided to cut and paste a couple of the replies I have made to some of those people.Ihope I haven't transgressed any rules by so doing. I ask you to read them, and realise that they are a universal responsetoall here, no matter which side of the line they chose to stand.
Meanwhile, to 84Bill. I apologise for the way I have responded to you. For the tone of my posts, and the way I expressed them. I am not apologising for my view or opinion: I stand by them until the day I die.I think you are misguided in many of your ideals, but they are yours to hold and nurture.I believe I have said before, that I have found many truths and legitimate thoughts over the years, and regret that you chose to use a means of expressing them, that virtually condemned them to be ignored.That is a pity.Now the replies I said I would post here. I hope they will be read with understanding, and compassion for my weakness in lashing out in a manner I am not used to using
QUOTE:
...... Yes, I remember the thread with Patrick! I learned from you
then, as well as did Patrick..and thanks for that.
I love Pennocks, and have thrived on the chat, laughing, crying and support
which goes both ways, for the three plus years I have been there. It has,
with the kindness and advice from so many good people, helped me through the
loss of my Mother, the sickness of my dogs, the troubles which I , as
everybody else, encounter from and during day-to-day life.It has also given
me the chance to help quite a few people who needed it.For these things, I
am eternally grateful.
Unfortunately, the thoughtless, or perhaps misdirected stance 84Bill took in
that thread opened up an old wound that I have suppressed and ignored for
many many years. The scars re-opened, and the poison spewded out, much to my
current regret. However, it seems to have allowed me to begin healing, after
more than 50 years, for which I have an incongruous gratitude.
There are, in our modern-day World, too many liberties being allowed in our
Society, and they are all to the detriment of ALL our lives, although the
damaging fallout may take years to actually harm us, or our children, or our
childrens' children.I take it to heart..perhaps too much, but that is my
way. I care far more than I despise,or denigrate.
So, I may well have to eat humble pie, and admit I don't WANT to leave
Pennock's, a decision I took in the heat and pain which ran through me.
We will see.
Thanks for being a Policeman. I have an affinity for the Police..I used to
play rugby for my County's Police team for 5 years, even though I was never
a policeman.I subscribe to the opinion that ANY policeman, when treated with
respect, understanding of how and WHY he does his job, and a polite smile,
will let you go on your way, feeling safer and more secure than ever.
Bless you for your caring letter, and I have taken it to my heart.
Recipient Topic: Re: Landscaper Under Fire for Refusing to Work for Gays
Boondawg
Member
11-15-2006 06:41 PM
Boonie. I just want to clear something up, if I may. I have not mentioned you, or your views, for a very good reason. Whether I agree with you, or you with me, is irrelevant. Social skills and public conduct are a critical part of maintaining a considered and insult-free discussion. Although I disagree vehemently with your views on homosexuality, you continue to be totally acceptable in your explanation of why you feel the way you do. You are invariably consistent in your views, and conduct.I have no problem AT ALL with you, and have some kind of affinity with you, as I have said before.
JohnnyK? I think he is a misguided, but lovable rogue.
Now we come to 84Bill. He has degenerated from a bumbling, somewhat incoherent , but forgivable fool. He has made points in the last three years that have a great deal of truth behind them, and yet buried them from sight under a tirade of insults, childish retorts and sarcasm.Name-calling. I have never considered reversing my positive vote for him, until a few weeks ago, when he posted a comment in somebody else's thread that went too far. I demoted him to a neutral, and told him of my action. He never acknowledged, defended or apologised for the totally crass and out of order comment.
It stayed on neutral until he began to rant and rave with sheer vitriol on a subject which, for many years I had steered clear of, for obvious reasons, if you read my earlier post about a 7 year old boy. Those things lay in my subconscious, for over 40 years, and may well have festered.The fester burst through, and caused me to behave in a way I am ashamed of.I sank to his level. Nothing praiseworthy in that. And I choose to apologise to you, in case you thought I was including you in my diatribe. I wasn't, despite my strong feelings which are probably stronger, and diametrically opposed, to yours.But, I have to admit, the release in being insulting back to him was nice, but not addictive.
Finally, Cliff has always made a point of how 'diplomatically restrained' he has been over personal feelings not causing him to take sides. His impartiality was torn to shreds in his actions, and the amount of fury in his attack on JStricker, although his name was not mentioned. It didn't have to be.I didn't want Stimpy around, during his nastiness on the Forum, yet he had his invitation to partake in the Forum ripped up and thrown in his face, for words and actions that PALE in the discontent, aggression and general oafish behaviour that 84Bill has sunk to.
Sometimes, even the most controlled, modulated and 'well-behaved' member of Society can have his buttons pushed over something which hits too close to home, causing an uncharacteristic outburst.Happened to me here.I make no apology for my stance and beliefs, any more than I expect YOU to.I spent a lot of time in tears yesteday, as the vivid picture of a man who molested me at the age of seven, suddenly appeared superimposed on my conception of what Bill looked like in a photo posted of him with the squirrel.All the rage, retribution and anger that has been buried for so long just erupted, and I no longer cared to modulate my words,or attitude, to conform with my concept of being an adult. How could it? The rage and fury, and hatred that had been subconsciously stored in my subconscious, exploded in the immature way that a seven year old could only muster in his pain.
I won't go on any more. just want you to know I still think you are a nice guy, even if your thoughts sometimes are contrary to mine.You still have that silly old plus I gave you yeas ago, and it won't change.
God Bless
Nick
QUOTE #2:
Nick Cann[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 11-16-2006).]
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WingNut - MD
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NOV 16, 07:29 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by 84Bill:
No.. I actually talk and as evidenced write that way at times... Are you calling me a ******? 
I don't think my "bwais" would appriciate it and I definatly don't.
If you knew anything at all about me... and you should if you even read anything other than that one post and took it way out of context.. you would not assume I were a racist. Far far from it holmslice. Lay off the cush casper.
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You are putting words in my mouth, and you can stop. My 14 year old nephew, who is an african american does not say axe for ask, and you, who are calling me a casper, I would think would not either. You are as white as me sir, and I do not appreciate that you again take to (trying) to slam someone. I was not drinking when I typed this.
We can debate, but stop the attacks. If you want to continue, take it to PM's, as I am done playing in the trash.
edit P.S. Thank you to whomever for the new vote! I was sick and tired of looking at 103 on my bar.[This message has been edited by WingNut - MD (edited 11-16-2006).]
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cliffw
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NOV 16, 09:19 AM
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I also believe living a ?gay? lifestyle is a choice. Not just because of my biblical/religious/learned beliefs. Nature dictates that it is abnormal. In the literal sense of the word not the judgmental sense.
Be that as it may, my wife is unloading her pre-marital home/property through a lease/purchase option. She is also christian in her beliefs. The tenants are gay and we did know it. No discrimination or prejudice here. To me, this topic is not about gay rights. Or the acceptability of anyone's life choices (on both sides of the discussion).
I still feel that one can and does have the right to refuse to do business with anyone and for any reason. Even if they are honest and give the reason. Even if it offends said persons. I can see the wrongs in the prejudicial hiring or leasing to someone. I can see wrongs in the particular interest up for discussion. Wrongs do not entitle people to 'rights'. I am sure that you have heard that one can not legislate morality. Or courteousness. Or legislate opinions. I do not believe they should be able to. It has not worked for abortion. I don't know where it ever has worked. Fact is, we are all different. We hang out with those that think like us. This extends to the point of government. Some countries choose to be a different way. It's called sovereignty. Yet some people think we should feel the same way they do  .
Was this ?gay? couple deprived? No. Were they publically ridiculed? No. How were they harmed? They got there feelings hurt  ? Remember that thread about kids baseball where they were starting to not keep score? Because it hurt their wittle feelings.  What a bunch of crock. People need to get bigger nut sacks. It is simply not possible to pander to the feelings of everybody. Life actually is not fair.
Let's suppose that a ?straight? couple refused to allow a landscape company managed by ?gays? to mow their yard. Should they be forced to let them?
| quote | Originally posted by Boondawg:
And that seemed to be the point I COULD NOT get across.
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This topic did cause me to reflect on my beliefs. I don't think anyone got a point across.
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84Bill
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NOV 16, 09:59 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by WingPutts - MD:
You are putting words in my mouth, and you can stop.
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Ohh... I see how this works. You can make baseless accusations that I'm a racist but I'm not allowed to put words in your mouth?
Okay.. got ya..
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SNIP: Irrealivent, and you, who are calling me a casper, I would think would not either. You are as white as me sir, and I do not appreciate that you again take to (trying) to slam someone. I was not drinking when I typed this.
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I see so you don't like being called what you are? What are you trying to be? Invisible?
Do yourself a favor and get a tan. While you're at it go to urbandictionary.com and difine your world.
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We can debate, but stop the attacks. If you want to continue, take it to PM's, as I am done playing in the trash.
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I'm not the one who statred the "attack" but then again I suppose you believe it's okay to have your opinions as to what an attack is but I'm not allowed to have mine?
Sorry buddy but that doesn't fly with me.
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edit P.S. Thank you to whomever for the new vote! I was sick and tired of looking at 103 on my bar.
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Your welcome.
And BTW your nephew is not "black" or even "african", atleast I don't see it that way.[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 11-16-2006).]
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84Bill
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NOV 16, 10:20 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by fierofetish:
84Bill. I apologise for the way I have responded to you. For the tone of my posts, and the way I expressed them. I am not apologising for my view or opinion: I stand by them until the day I die.I think you are misguided in many of your ideals, but they are yours to hold and nurture.I
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While I appriciate the sentiment I hardly believe you are apologetic.
What you said to and about me was extremely hateful and I am in no way deserving of that for any reason. As far as me being "misguided" you had better check your direction....You can believe whatever you want, I could care less but one thing is fir sure, someone has been wispering in your other ear.
You can take the path of the selfrigheous man with his clenched fist proclaiming words of hate and discrimination but I'm taking the high road on this one. As a "god fearing person" it seems you reserve the right to say that "god hates gays"... Okay.. I suppose you should know so go ahead and believe what you want.
Myself... I'm a heathen... I know it and god knows it too and there is no way I can hide from that.... aint no fig leaf big enough.
Good day Sir.
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84Bill
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NOV 16, 11:28 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by fierofetish:
Now we come to 84Bill. He has degenerated from a bumbling, somewhat incoherent , but forgivable fool. He has made points in the last three years that have a great deal of truth behind them, and yet buried them from sight under a tirade of insults, childish retorts and sarcasm.Name-calling. I have never considered reversing my positive vote for him, until a few weeks ago, when he posted a comment in somebody else's thread that went too far. I demoted him to a neutral, and told him of my action. He never acknowledged, defended or apologised for the totally crass and out of order comment.
It stayed on neutral until he began to rant and rave with sheer vitriol on a subject which, for many years I had steered clear of, for obvious reasons, if you read my earlier post about a 7 year old boy. Those things lay in my subconscious, for over 40 years, and may well have festered.The fester burst through, and caused me to behave in a way I am ashamed of.I sank to his level. Nothing praiseworthy in that. And I choose to apologise to you, in case you thought I was including you in my diatribe. I wasn't, despite my strong feelings which are probably stronger, and diametrically opposed, to yours.But, I have to admit, the release in being insulting back to him was nice, but not addictive.
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Your apology is officialy not accepted.
Further, I WILL admit to all accusations because I simply don't care. Weigh me and Judge me, you have that right.. Just remember one very important thing Mr. I do too and I do not have a problem passing or expressing them as I see fit.
I see "the release in being insulting back to him" which is why your apology is about as hollow as your head and your heart.
Yes, that was an insult and it does make me feel better. I'm not a Christian so I'm not compelled to forgive your tresspasses against me or to restrain myself in any way from stomping all over you if I wish. I don't hate you but I do hate what I see when I look at you and I will not hesitate to call you or anyone else on it. You are an ugly monster and one I see quite often. You are the "tool" and the handy work I see manufactured by the use of you is black and vile hatred. I'm not going to lie, I am vile and I spit hatred at times but I do retain in my core a love for all people. It never leaves me. My work is what I am, judged by you and others. I also judge myself very carefuly, I know where my boundries are set; by something that is within me I don't always understand.. I just step and know that where I step is always in the right place.
I don't see the sand spurr but I know it is there and when I step on it I do not blame it, instead I blame myself.
I don't need you or anyone else to correct me because you are equally as foulable but there is one who is not and I listen to it with all that I am. I look farward to the day when there is no more judgement... I want that so very much that at times it brings tears to my eyes. Till then I will press on and find whatever good I can in this wreched world. Though I do not accept your apology I do forgive you. Do not assume this means I will not lash out at you again if I see fit.. I may.. I may not however, we both will have a hand in determining that.
I will never forget you. I know you very well..... I know what you are and what you are saying because it is very clear.. crystal.
I'm done for now but you will be seeing me and my words again.. You have been served notice so I don't expect you to change your vote. I won't be changing mine anytime soon either.
I'm on this forum by the grace of the people but I live by the grace of something else.. I have no idea why or what.. I just do and thats enough reason for me..
leave me in peace.
I don't care where you go but if you show yourself to me again in this way... we will have words and I will not restain myself in my use of them.
Go.. or I shall taunt you a second timeah...[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 11-16-2006).]
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cliffw
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NOV 16, 01:51 PM
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test
EDIT
Avatar test.
This is not good  Sucessfull, but not good. Time to undo.[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 11-16-2006).]
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avengador1
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NOV 16, 01:54 PM
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Scott-Wa
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NOV 17, 02:49 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by Jake_Dragon:
Pushing your views on to others is the issue, not what those views are.
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And this is the most interesting thing I've seen you state... but a bunch of others state the same thing from BOTH sides.
Do the gays have the right to have written the emails... Response- They need to stop pushing their views on good Christians
BUT- The Christians in question were very much pushing their views about homosexuals... They link to a website attempting to outlaw gay marriage.
So WHO is pushing a choice? The gay couple... absolutely, the christian couple... also absolutely.
Say you are a follower of the classic god Ford and your bible says Fieros are an abomination against Ford. You don't feel that Fieros should be able to be registered for highway use because the Ford bible says Fords are First on Race Day and that Fieros will burn in the fires of hell. So you attempt to get laws outlawing Fiero registration... after all, Fieros are a choice.
A Fiero owner calls you up and wants their lawn mowed... you politely refuse because you can't support the Fiero lifestyle, matter a fact you have links on your website to a site you support trying to outlaw Fiero registration. The Fiero owners get a bit ticked off and email their friends and tell them not to do business with you.... Then the uproar spreads across the internet.
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BigBoyToys
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NOV 17, 03:31 AM
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Scott...very creative way of stating this delema.... many thanks...BBTs
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