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texasfiero
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NOV 13, 11:23 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by 84Bill:
You can exercise it all you want but DO NOT make laws based on your religious values.
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Ok, you won't quote the letter, I will. Note the phrase "wall of separation" which is NOT in the constitution, but is the phrase you folks use to restrict the "free exercise of".
Jefferson's Wall of Separation Letter Digg This Page! Add Delicious Link! Add Reddit Link!
Thomas Jefferson wrote a letter to the Danbury Baptist Association in 1802 to answer a letter from them written in October 1801. A copy of the Danbury letter is available here. The Danbury Baptists were a religious minority in Connecticut, and they complained that in their state, the religious liberties they enjoyed were not seen as immutable rights, but as privileges granted by the legislature - as "favors granted." Jefferson's reply did not address their concerns about problems with state establishment of religion - only that on the national level. The letter contains the phrase "wall of separation between church and state," which led to the short-hand for the Establishment Clause that we use today: "Separation of church and state."
The letter was the subject of intense scrutiny by Jefferson, and he consulted a couple of New England politicians to assure that his words would not offend while still conveying his message: it was not the place of the Congress or the Executive to do anything that might be misconstrued as the establishment of religion.
Note: The bracketed section in the second paragraph had been blocked off for deletion, though it was not actually deleted in his draft of the letter. It is included here for completeness. Reflecting upon Jefferson's knowledge that his letter was far from a mere personal correspondence, he deleted the block, he says in the margin, to avoid offending members of his party in the eastern states.
This is a transcript of the letter as stored online at the Library of Congress, and reflects Jefferson's spelling and punctuation.
Mr. President
To messers Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.
Gentlemen
The affectionate sentiments of esteem & approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful & zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, and in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more & more pleasing.
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state. [Congress thus inhibited from acts respecting religion, and the Executive authorised only to execute their acts, I have refrained from presenting even occasional performances of devotion presented indeed legally where an Executive is the legal head of a national church, but subject here, as religious exercises only to the voluntary regulations and discipline of each respective sect.] Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.
I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection and blessing of the common Father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves and your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.
(signed) Thomas Jefferson
Jan.1.1802.
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texasfiero
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NOV 13, 11:25 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by 84Bill:
Rome fell because of bad government and policy. It stopped giving a crap about its people and it began to fall apart.. BUT ultimatly it was the FAULT of the government.
Incidentally the founders of this country knew this and this is why we have a REPUBLIC whis is loosly based on Roman government.. Senators... representing the state.. Representitves... representing the people and a non bias non partisan Judicial branch... which we dont really have anymore.
The government killed Rome and the Government is killing the US. |
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Did it perhaps loose its moral backbone?
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84Bill
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NOV 13, 11:26 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Patrick's Dad:
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Your religion is established in the governemnt, many politicians are christian or catholic and in so many words are wordsmithing laws which ARE in EFFECT establising a religious doctroin ALL must follow.
I didn't see it for a long time but the more I look at the picture the more the "magic eye" revealed to me.
Christianity has over run the government.. Its obvious to me.[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 11-13-2006).]
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84Bill
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NOV 13, 11:28 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by texasfiero:
Did it perhaps loose its moral backbone?
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No.. the government went corrupt.. Just like ours is now. The similarities between the roman government and ours at present are striking and terrifying. Our government has changed ALOT since it was established and has re-written many of the controls that once were the domain of the people for the people by the people.[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 11-13-2006).]
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texasfiero
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NOV 13, 11:29 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by 84Bill:
Your religion is establising in the governemnt, many politicians are christian or catholic and in so many words wordsmithing laws whic ARE in EFFECT establising a religious doctroin ALL must follow.
I didn't see it for a long time but the more I look at the picture the more the "magic eye" revealed to me.
Christianity has over run the government.. Its obvious to me. |
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The magic eye had nothing to do with it. The Masons did much good work, but there are some questionable things too.
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84Bill
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NOV 13, 11:30 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by jstricker:
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Forget it John.. you just keep changin the argument.
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84Bill
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NOV 13, 11:31 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by texasfiero:
The magic eye had nothing to do with it. The Masons did much good work, but there are some questionable things too. |
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Grrrrrrrrr! flood control again...
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84Bill
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NOV 13, 11:36 PM
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Again Tex
| quote |
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
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| quote |
By enforcing laws it is becoming more and more apparent what religion is being established by congress and the government and is in violation with the FIRST AMENDMENT prohibiting the formation of a religious establisment.
I can call you a jackass right up front or I can do it in so many words..
Alcohol controls
Abortion
Gun Control
Vulgarity or Cencorship
Anti Drug laws
Prostitution
Gay marriage ban
On and on and on
ALL
Are Christian moral battlefronts.. ALL are in contention with CIVIL LIBERTIES
Looks like a Jackass to me.
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This isnt rocket science...
It's called connect the dots. Anyone with any cognitive abilities can see the picture amid the dots... Just 1....2....3....4 and there it is pretty as ya please.
Hey.. I just noticed.... you have big ears and buck theeth.  [This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 11-13-2006).]
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texasfiero
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NOV 13, 11:41 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by 84Bill:
Again Tex
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
By enforcing laws it is becoming more and more apparent what religion is being established by congress and the government and is in violation with the FIRST AMENDMENT prohibiting the formation of a religious establisment.
I can call you a jackass right up front or I can do it in so many words..
Alcohol controls
Abortion
Gun Control
Vulgarity or Cencorship
Anti Drug laws
Prostitution
Gay marriage ban
On and on and on
ALL
Are Christian moral battlefronts.. ALL are in contention with CIVIL LIBERTIES
Looks like a Jackass to me.
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Again Bill, You're bending the constitution to make it say something it DOES NOT say.
Would you have all the items and activities you listed run unrestricted.
True to liberal nature, when you can't argue the facts, fall back to name calling.[This message has been edited by texasfiero (edited 11-13-2006).]
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Patrick's Dad
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NOV 13, 11:43 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by 84Bill:
Wrong
By enforcing laws it is becoming more and more apparent what religion is being established by congress and the government and is in violation with the FIRST AMENDMENT prohibiting the formation of a religious establisment. |
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So we should have no laws, so there is nothing to enforce. There is no state religion, Bill. Stop being paranoid.
| quote | | I can call you a jackass right up front or I can do it in so many words.. |
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There we have it, tolerance of the liberal humanist....
Alcohol controls: So, I'm wrong, we should let minors buy it and drink it?
Abortion: So, I'm wrong, 33 million children; good riddance? They were all either defective or from poor parents, after all.
Gun Control: So I'm wrong. Abolish the second ammendment, or did that get thrown out with, apprently, the first?
Vulgarity or Cencorship: So I'm wrong. The South Park kids are good role models.
Anti Drug: So I'm wrong. Driving while high on pot or heroine can't be all that bad. And the quality goes up while the price goes down, right? Isn't that the way in Amsterdam?
Prostitution: Oh, yeah, I'm so wrong here. Use women (heck, in a bow to NAMBLA, young boys need love and money, too) for our own gratification. As long as they get tested and certified by the government periodically. Can't be anything bad for society here....
| quote | On and on and on
ALL
Are Christian moral battlefronts.. ALL are in contention with CIVIL LIBERTIES
Looks like a Jackass to me. |
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Because John Adams, Thomas Jefferson and George Washington all spanked a few hoes while knocking back a forty and passing around a joint. It's amazing that they didn't shoot each other instead of the British.
What if I refused to mow your lawn because you are a recreational drug user?
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