|
Wow, nice post.... Well, they always say there's 2 side to every story. Mine is much more entertaining to some of the things he posted. I will get Word fired up and start my 2 page post about this.... Arrgh, I hate to type... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Added below after about 2 hours of getting the facts best I can.... <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Loyde’s side……. AT the end of this is my closing on the subject…. Wow, this post is long…
Ryan sent me a PCM and a very nice outline on the parameters he wanted to have changed. Once I saw the PCM was 12209624 I knew this was a late model PCM. Now here’s were the story already starts changing…. I called Ryan and thank him for the nice parameter sheet on the changes. He indicated he knew what I needed because he goes though the problems with OBDI programming. Well, he forgot the size of the tires in inches, if I was going to change the speedo calibration part. He even admitted on the phone that he should have indicated that. Then our conversation turns to the PCM. I plainly told him at this point that programming a 2002 PCM with 99/00 code is not recommended, for one reason, I have never done it before and not sure how it will react. His comment was it is what the CUSTOMER provided, and it what will be used. I said fine with me. So it was on to programming 12209624 as outlined in the below letter….. Heres the letter Ryan sent… 
Now to this point me and Ryan have exchanged about 8 emails and one phone call. The emails are : Start at the bottom of ALL the quotes and read UP…
| quote | ok well we will have to see what happens. I have a nice OTC 4000enhanced scan tool but my cart only goes up to 97, I am watching a 99 and 2001 cart's on eBay so I will prolly pick one up anyway.
----- Original Message -----
From: FastFieros
To: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 10:21 PM
Subject: RE: custom OBDII programming I have uploaded many PCM’s here personally, and have only come across 3 PCM’s that set the P1336 code. No drivability change on the PCM”s that I did the CASE learn on for the heck of it. I say you should not see a problem. Loyde
________________________________________
From: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net [mailto:darthfiero@worldnet.att.net]
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 12:38 AM
To: FastFieros
Subject: Re: custom OBDII programming
Quick question, you said you were going to upload the 2000 program to this pcm. Will I have to do the CASE learn procedure?
-ryan
----- Original Message -----
From: FastFieros
To: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 4:58 PM
Subject: RE: custom OBDII programming You PCM shipped today priority mail. I can program it anyway you like up or down. Just remember, I am having to go by your tuning recommendations. I suggest a A or B type PCM approach. It is simple for me to program the PCM, but shipping and time sucks. We need 2 PCM;s and I can program them just a little different so you can compare the 2 and decide on a final. You will have to send the PCM you have so I can pull the code, then I will make changes and then program a 2nd PCM also if I have one that matches the hardware and service numbers. $125 bucks will cover the tuning and I will provide a 2nd PCM for development. IF you decide you want to keep the development PCM for a spare, add $75. I wont ask for a core deposit as I trust you that you will return the 2nd PCM when we have decided on the final code that makes the car run the best. I hate someone not being to drive there car just because the PCM needs service. Loyde
________________________________________
From: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net [mailto:darthfiero@worldnet.att.net]
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 1:56 AM
To: FastFieros
Subject: Re: custom OBDII programming
Have a question for you, Loyde. I have a friend who has a 99 Regal GSE with the L67 and some mods. He recently ordered an Intense PCM but is having issues with getting Intense to make the changes HE wants, in short they won't do it.
I need to know if and how much to reprogram a 99 Regal computer to work with the following mods:
-stock 99 L67
-stock 36lb injectors
-1.9 roller rocker arms
-ported front exhaust manifold
-custom 3" downpipe, all factory restrictions removed
-3" cat
-2.5" cat-back exhaust with magnaflow muffler
-stock trans
-4" cold air induction w/ K&N
basically the issue he is having is it is running slightly too lean. O2 voltage starts off at 0.890 but drops to 0.860 by the top of 3rd gear. KR is always around 6-8 degrees but gets worse the leaner the fuel gets. Injector pulse width is only 18ms and I understand 21ms is about the limit until you need bigger injectors. The problem is Intense won't give him any more fuel because they "insist" there is something wrong with his car. Well we have scanned the car, checked the volume/pressure output of the fuel pump under WOT, and everything checks out. Only thing Intense wants to do is refund his money. So basically we are looking for someone else to do PCM programming. Need a price and if you can do it and what all you need.
-ryan |
|
One thing to notice, NO WHERE in any of the emails prior to the actual time I get the PCM in my hands do I know it is a 12209624
So now we are at 11/11/04 … here is the email from Ryan
| quote |
Loyde, finally got the car running today and I have a check engine light and some codes.
There is only one code that is causing the check engine light to come on and stay on after two startup cycles:
PO140 HO2S Sensor 2 Circuit Insufficient Activity
I can clear this code out and it will keep the SES light off until I start and run the car for a second time.
I also have 2 other hard faults but they are not currently causing a check engine light:
P0463 Fuel Level Sensor Circuit High Voltage
P0656 Fuel Level Output Circuit
Also the coolant fan constantly runs once the coolant temp hits about 188 degrees F. This engine is using sthe stock 195 thermostat so I need to bump the fan on/off temps up a little. This engine seems to like to run at about 192-196 so I think the fans should turn on at 204 and off at 198. (I have both fan outputs wired to two seperate relays that activate the OEM Fiero single fan relay.
Let me know if there is anything you can do for me. Thanks.
-ryan
|
|
So we have one code that is causing the check engine light. P0140 .. I actually turned off the Sensor 2 codes, but since this is a 2002 PCM with 99/00 code, the DTC clear code flag did not work. That was clue one to me there might be a code problem in this PCM.
Now Ryan decides that the Temps are wrong and he is the one that specified those. The stock GTP is a 195 T stat just like every other late model car. The temps in the PCM are set to 210 on, and 220 off. He requests lowering the temps, and do what I do for other Fieros… Well that is 188 on, and 195 off. No where did he SPECIFY and number until the above email. So on 11/12 this is the email from Ryan
| quote | So does this mean you can't turn off P0140?
I couldn't remember what I told to you to set the fans by but it was my fault because I was assuming the owner had changed or was going to change to a 180 stat. Let me ask him if he wants a 180 stat or wants to keep the 195. Will advise.
The alternator failed on this car as well shortly after I got it on the road so I will need to see how long the customer is going take with the parts (he bought a new alternator and it is going to have to be warrantied, but I am going to try to talk him into buying a better brand if I can). Please check on your stock it sounds like the cross-ship might be a more viable option. Let me know what you need from me to do this.
-ryan
----- Original Message -----
From: FastFieros
To: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 11:37 PM
Subject: RE: custom OBDII programming Well, don’t see P0140 that I can remember…. Darn… 
None of the codes are drivability thankfully. Fan temps are set for 188 as you noted… Most people run the 160 or 180 Tstat…. I will set it all to your liking.. Just ship it back with $10 to cover return shipping.. I can cross ship one if you want to just send that one and I just keep it. Hopefully I will have a PCM in stock with the same service number and hardware number. I have many PCMs.. Loyde
________________________________________
From: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net [mailto:darthfiero@worldnet.att.net]
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 11:03 PM
To: FastFieros
Subject: Re: custom OBDII programming
Loyde, finally got the car running today and I have a check engine light and some codes.
There is only one code that is causing the check engine light to come on and stay on after two startup cycles:
PO140 HO2S Sensor 2 Circuit Insufficient Activity
I can clear this code out and it will keep the SES light off until I start and run the car for a second time.
I also have 2 other hard faults but they are not currently causing a check engine light:
P0463 Fuel Level Sensor Circuit High Voltage
P0656 Fuel Level Output Circuit
Also the coolant fan constantly runs once the coolant temp hits about 188 degrees F. This engine is using sthe stock 195 thermostat so I need to bump the fan on/off temps up a little. This engine seems to like to run at about 192-196 so I think the fans should turn on at 204 and off at 198. (I have both fan outputs wired to two seperate relays that activate the OEM Fiero single fan relay.
Let me know if there is anything you can do for me. Thanks.
-ryan
|
|
OK, this is really killing me to type all this and justify myself on this issue…. Lets fast forward to 11/15
I had a PCM programmed and shipped before I heard from Ryan again on the 15th… OK.. here are all the emails in one email conversation….. This is what took place in this 3 days….
| quote | Ok well I will try normal mode. Wiring is set up per 99 GTP diagrams. What I will probably do is just give the car back to the customer because when the snow hits he is not going to drive it. At that time he can iron out the PCM with you if he so chooses.
Thanks.
-ryan
----- Original Message -----
From: FastFieros
To: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 6:07 PM
Subject: RE: custom OBDII programming One of the problems might be the code. The PCM is a late model PCM. 03 might have adaptive shifts, but the 97-02 does not. I know my 04 Series III does have adaptive shift for sure. The code in the PCM is 2000 to avoid the Passkey issues. HPTuner claims to have resolved the Passkey with Version 1.5.0, but had to release 1.5.1 one day later because of a problem with Passkey. Most likely should have setup a PCM from 99-01 like I normally do and try that on your wiring. I setup all my installs with 99 wiring, and 99 PCM code. Wiring was the same really 99-02. I know some 98 wiring can use the 99-02 PCM’s as well. I have already reshipped you a PCM. It is changed for the codes you indicated. Temp changes also. The performance shift mode is firmed up, but not that much compared to what DHP changes it to. The normal mode is just that still, stock. If you are in normal mode and experiencing a problem, but is either the PCM/CODE do to the wiring, or the wiring, or the transmission has issues internally. Just call if you want to chat about it. Loyde
972-880-6643
________________________________________
From: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net [mailto:darthfiero@worldnet.att.net]
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 3:55 PM
To: FastFieros
Subject: Re: custom OBDII programming
Hey Loyde, I was wondering if you got the PCM shipped yet. The reason why is because I was able to drive the car a little today and now in addition to the 3 codes I told you about it popped up a P1811 Max Adaptive Long Shift code which defaults to max line pressure. The trans was a little lazy but got better the more I drove it. I think I told you to firm up the shifts a little for the original program but I don't know what has to be done for the adaptive shift parameters. Let me know your thoughts.
-ryan
----- Original Message -----
From: FastFieros
To: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net
Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 9:42 AM
Subject: RE: custom OBDII programming I have one… I will send it Monday priority mail. Please note any other changes over the weekend you want.. Loyde
________________________________________
From: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net [mailto:darthfiero@worldnet.att.net]
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 10:38 PM
To: FastFieros
Subject: Re: custom OBDII programming
Service number is 12209624
Hardware number is 12202610
I need the following codes removed:
P0140 -- this one is critical (causes MIL)
P0463
P0656
Also need the fan(s) to turn on at 204 F and off at 198 F because we are going to keep the 195 stat. Please let me know if we can do this cross-ship thing and how early you can have me the reprogrammed PCM. Let me know what I need to do (payment, etc).
Thanks,
-ryan
----- Original Message -----
From: FastFieros
To: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 8:18 AM
Subject: RE: custom OBDII programming Sure I can turn off all the codes that show up if they are in the list of DTC’s.. Now, I cant just randomly turn off codes… Lets say P0146 is listed in the below list. Lets say I set it to OFF and no error reported. It wants to write code somewhere in the Hex for that. Problem is, this list also applys to V8 code. HPT built a generic list of codes rather than sort them by OSID. DHP is sorting theirs by OSID so if the code exist in that OSID of that PCM, it is safe to turn off. Even DHP using GM’s MemCal engineering cannot just turn off every code in the list for the same reason. I need the Service Number and Hardware Number on that white tag on the PCM. Thanks, Loyde |
|
OK, now Ryan is testing the replacement PCM
| quote | OTC Monitor 4000 Enhanced, 99 Pathfinder ----- Original Message -----
From: "FastFieros" <FastFieros@FastFieros.com>
To: <darthfiero@worldnet.att.net>
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 3:10 PM
Subject: RE: PCM/TRANS PROBLEMS might be resolved
> Good deal.. I will test the other PCM just to see results on my end and
> FYI...
>
> What are you using to scan with?
>
> Loyde
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net [mailto:darthfiero@worldnet.att.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 3:02 PM
> To: Pete Disbennet; FastFieros@FastFieros.com
> Subject: PCM/TRANS PROBLEMS might be resolved
>
> The new PCM showed up today and I installed it. The fuel level and
> post-cat
>
> O2 codes are gone. I drove the car about 30 miles combined city/hwy
> driving
>
> and so far no P1811 trans code. In fact the shifts seem to be a little
> healthier compared to the other computer. I am going to let the car sit
> for
>
> a little while and go back out and drive it some more to verify everything
> is ok.
>
> With the old computer my scan data for the trans was showing:
>
> Current Adaptive Cel: would get as high as 120+ durning the shifts
> Current Adaptive Mem: would be fixed at -15
>
>
> I installed the new computer and right away the Current Adaptive Mem was
> at -16. During the drive cycle I noticed it would sometimes move
> to -14, -15, -16 but would usually stay around -15. I am doing some
> research into what this number means, so far I have not come up with
> anything. However I have noticed now the Current Adaptive cell only gets
> as
>
> high as 50-60 during the shifts (agressive driving) but most of the time
> it
> only goes up to about 20.
>
> Will do some more testing and advise. The original PCM got shipped out
> today back to Loyde via Priority Mail.
>
> -ryan
>
>
|
|
Now lets move to Ryan is happy, and general email conversation….
| quote |
yes he took the car home this weekend to free up my shop space. once the PCM gets here I am going to drive to his place and try it out.
----- Original Message -----
From: FastFieros
To: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 12:48 PM
Subject: RE: custom OBDII programmingWho has the car now? I see the customer has drove the car, did he take it? Loyde
________________________________________
From: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net [mailto:darthfiero@worldnet.att.net]
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 7:20 PM
To: FastFieros
Subject: Re: custom OBDII programming
not a problem and I want you to understand that I am not trying to blame anyone for this issue. At this point I just hope it is a problem with the newer computers and not the trans. I will let you know when I get and test out the latest computer. Shipping cost money is on the way.
-ryan
----- Original Message -----
From: FastFieros
To: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 6:02 PM
Subject: RE: custom OBDII programming Nope, redone another PCM this morning on a 1999 PCM, with 2000 code. The code is structured different in 03 in the PCM, there are chips that the HPTuner cannot access to change some things. I fear that their PCM code cannot get to the transmission stuff properly done. I used some DHP code in the PCM you are getting. Its working the customer car I have here extremely well today, this is the same PCM I tested this morning and made sure it worked with no codes. It is once again only changed in Performance mode, so put it in normal if the shifting is a little hard to you. I did not check the 3 buttons to FALSE on the torque management screen. I wanted you to feel comfortable in the changes, but I can tell you, I tested it both ways and saw no changes in the way it shifted. I just turn it off on Fieros because Fieros do not have wheel sensors to report TCS or Torque management. The input shaft has the turbine speed sensor wheel on it. Then the output shaft has the input sensor for the VSS… I am sure there’s some comparison done at this level in the PCM’s. So far, I am into $20 on shipping costs. Paypal is OpenWheel@FastFieros.com As far as the TAD, I scanned the PCM I have in the car now, and it reacted the same way on the shifts. Always -16 unless you floor it, or heavy type TPS movement. Sorry my thoughts are random and not structured well, I hate to type, and my grammar is very poor. Loyde
________________________________________
From: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net [mailto:darthfiero@worldnet.att.net]
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 4:19 PM
To: FastFieros
Subject: Re: custom OBDII programming
ok, not a problem. Just so we are on the same page, are you sending the PCM that showed TAD Memory capable of reaching "-4"? Also, what year is the PCM you are sending?
I will let you know when it gets here and when I do the testing. Also, please let me know what the testing reveals using the PCM I sent you yesterday.
-ryan
----- Original Message -----
From: FastFieros
To: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 3:35 PM
Subject: RE: custom OBDII programming Not a problem sharing the info to get this resolved. All, I can say to the enable/disable of those items is, there sure is a lot of Fieros running with it set that way, and GTPs that don’t have this problem. I just test drove the car I have here today with it both ways and saw no different in the way it shifted at all. Let me send you a PCM that I have tested on this car to be prefect with no codes today. I have one hour to prepare it… Loyde
________________________________________
From: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net [mailto:darthfiero@worldnet.att.net]
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 12:04 PM
To: FastFieros@FastFieros.com
Subject: Fw: custom OBDII programming
----- Original Message -----
From: Powertrip186@aol.com
To: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 12:01 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: custom OBDII programming I see that master enable is false and so are the other two enables. From my experience, they have to be ON, or at least the torque management and master enable, and I go into the Performance table and tune that to make it work. Hope your next pcm works out ok, but I would NOT turn all the enables to false, I would tell him to leave them be if it still does it.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Loyde, this email is being forwarded to you from my trans builder, the one who I discussed my unique issue with. He is using HP Tuners for his 98 PCM. Let me know your thoughts.
-ryan |
|
Now more general conversation for your pleasure to read…
| quote | Something else that came to my mind. I wonder if there is something funny with the 2002-up trannys. I did a L32 series III swap into my friend's 97 GTP not too long ago using a 2003 trans that only had about 2000 miles on it and it had really lazy shifts. I am wondering if GM used some different accumulator springs or pressure reg valve springs in the newer trannys. He was running an Intense PCM with "upgraded" shift improvements and it was still very lazy. I added some springs to his shift accumulators which seemed to help the shift feel issue.
-ryan
----- Original Message -----
From: FastFieros
To: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 12:48 PM
Subject: RE: custom OBDII programming Who has the car now? I see the customer has drove the car, did he take it? Loyde
________________________________________
From: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net [mailto:darthfiero@worldnet.att.net]
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 7:20 PM
To: FastFieros
Subject: Re: custom OBDII programming
not a problem and I want you to understand that I am not trying to blame anyone for this issue. At this point I just hope it is a problem with the newer computers and not the trans. I will let you know when I get and test out the latest computer. Shipping cost money is on the way.
-ryan
----- Original Message -----
From: FastFieros
To: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 6:02 PM
Subject: RE: custom OBDII programming Nope, redone another PCM this morning on a 1999 PCM, with 2000 code. The code is structured different in 03 in the PCM, there are chips that the HPTuner cannot access to change some things. I fear that their PCM code cannot get to the transmission stuff properly done. I used some DHP code in the PCM you are getting. Its working the customer car I have here extremely well today, this is the same PCM I tested this morning and made sure it worked with no codes. It is once again only changed in Performance mode, so put it in normal if the shifting is a little hard to you. I did not check the 3 buttons to FALSE on the torque management screen. I wanted you to feel comfortable in the changes, but I can tell you, I tested it both ways and saw no changes in the way it shifted. I just turn it off on Fieros because Fieros do not have wheel sensors to report TCS or Torque management. The input shaft has the turbine speed sensor wheel on it. Then the output shaft has the input sensor for the VSS… I am sure there’s some comparison done at this level in the PCM’s. So far, I am into $20 on shipping costs. Paypal is OpenWheel@FastFieros.com As far as the TAD, I scanned the PCM I have in the car now, and it reacted the same way on the shifts. Always -16 unless you floor it, or heavy type TPS movement. Sorry my thoughts are random and not structured well, I hate to type, and my grammar is very poor. Loyde
________________________________________
From: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net [mailto:darthfiero@worldnet.att.net]
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 4:19 PM
To: FastFieros
Subject: Re: custom OBDII programming
ok, not a problem. Just so we are on the same page, are you sending the PCM that showed TAD Memory capable of reaching "-4"? Also, what year is the PCM you are sending?
I will let you know when it gets here and when I do the testing. Also, please let me know what the testing reveals using the PCM I sent you yesterday.
-ryan
----- Original Message -----
From: FastFieros
To: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 3:35 PM
Subject: RE: custom OBDII programming Not a problem sharing the info to get this resolved. All, I can say to the enable/disable of those items is, there sure is a lot of Fieros running with it set that way, and GTPs that don’t have this problem. I just test drove the car I have here today with it both ways and saw no different in the way it shifted at all. Let me send you a PCM that I have tested on this car to be prefect with no codes today. I have one hour to prepare it… Loyde
________________________________________
From: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net [mailto:darthfiero@worldnet.att.net]
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 12:04 PM
To: FastFieros@FastFieros.com
Subject: Fw: custom OBDII programming
----- Original Message -----
From: Powertrip186@aol.com
To: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 12:01 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: custom OBDII programming I see that master enable is false and so are the other two enables. From my experience, they have to be ON, or at least the torque management and master enable, and I go into the Performance table and tune that to make it work. Hope your next pcm works out ok, but I would NOT turn all the enables to false, I would tell him to leave them be if it still does it.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Loyde, this email is being forwarded to you from my trans builder, the one who I discussed my unique issue with. He is using HP Tuners for his 98 PCM. Let me know your thoughts.
-ryan |
|
Now we chat about HP Tuners…
| quote | well thanks for the heads up. I was going to originally go with HP Tuners but I have heard from others that their support sucks (sounds like you ran into this).
----- Original Message -----
From: FastFieros
To: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 9:50 PM
Subject: RE: OLD PCM tested At this point with HPT not supporting my requests and offering resolution to problems I have noted to them, I recommend DHP. They specialize in V6 and have better tuning parameters. The software is a behind still, a little slower in loading to the PCM, but that should catch up soon. Loyde
________________________________________
From: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net [mailto:darthfiero@worldnet.att.net]
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 9:44 PM
To: FastFieros
Subject: Re: OLD PCM tested
Huh, I was unaware you were having issues with the HP Tuners. I was thinking of purchasing my own OBDII programming software soon for 97 GTP and 99 Regal, but was planning to go with DHP's Powrtuner.
Have you ever used DHP Powrtuner and if so how does it compare with HP Tuners?
-ryan
----- Original Message -----
From: FastFieros
To: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 9:29 PM
Subject: RE: OLD PCM tested I already tried to warn HPT that the transmission section was not working right. I proved it 3 weeks ago on a GTP to GTP swap that involved a 2001 complete powertrain to a 1998 car and lets just say a DHP PCM and HPT attempt to duplicate was not successful without me hacking the code at the hex level. I don’t like to do it that way because it decreases my confidence in HPT V6 support. You have to understand also that putting 99-01 code in that 12202610 PCM was not the thing to do really. I have never done for myself to test, nor for anyone else I have sent PCM for swaps. The PCM starts and runs the car for sure, but it is not acting exactly right. Loyde
________________________________________
From: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net [mailto:darthfiero@worldnet.att.net]
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 9:29 PM
To: FastFieros
Subject: Re: OLD PCM tested
ok will try it out monday and advise. wonder what the issue is with that PCM and the crappier shifts and no TAP adjustment. huh, if I were you I would advise HP Tuners of the problem so they can either find a fix or put the word out to their customers.
-ryan
----- Original Message -----
From: FastFieros
To: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 5:28 PM
Subject: OLD PCM tested
I tested the PCM you sent back.. I did not get the P1811 code, but in my opinion it shifted to slow. The adaptive TAP never moved from -16.
The code runs different in the 99-01 PCM’s is all I can figure. I will not let that happen again. I just programmed what you sent with what works for all the other ones, but I will not program 12202610 with that code again. Hopefully the new PCM resolves your problem shifting as I think it should now. Loyde |
|
Now on this day…. Wow, what an email I get… 11/22/04
| quote | Don't have a problem calling you, in fact I assumed this was the way you preferred to communicate. What gave you the idea I didn't want to call you?
You can call my cell number for the next 2 hours, I plan to be up that long doing work here on the PC. Currently, it is 10pm my time. 563-343-???? ( edited by LOYDE because this is the girlfriends cell number)
-ryan
----- Original Message -----
From: FastFieros
To: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 9:53 PM
Subject: RE: New PCM test results You better provide me a phone number since you seem to have a problem calling me… Loyde
________________________________________
From: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net [mailto:darthfiero@worldnet.att.net]
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 9:13 PM
To: FastFieros
Cc: pdisbennet@kresscarrier.com
Subject: New PCM test results
Loyde, installed the lastest PCM into the customer's vehicle today. Right off the bat I could tell the trans issue was fixed, gear shifts are crisp, and I can see the numbers moving on the scan tool more like what you were reporting. Even WOT shift points appear to be perfect.
However, there are a couple of problems. I am now getting a check engine light and the following trouble codes:
P0449 - EVAP Vent Valve Solenoid Control Circuit (no vent valve installed during swap)
P0452 - Fuel Tank Pressure Sensor Circuit Low Voltage (no FTP sensor installed during swap)
P1260 - Fuel Pump Speed Relay Control Circuit (only using 1 fuel pump relay)
Also the speedo appears to be 5% too fast in calibration (reading 5% too fast in relation to actual speed). I am attaching a complete DTC code list for the 99 GTP for you to use a future reference since your HP Tuners won't tell you what each vehicle uses.
Now that we got that out of the way, we need to talk. My customer is extermely frustrated that now after the 3rd custom PCM, it still isn't right. I am equally frustrated because I have now spent $20 of my own shipping money and $20 of my customer's shipping money in this PCM programming debachle. Overall, between my customer and I, we are quickly approaching the amount of money (incurred shipping on inital programming cost) it would cost me to purchase the license for the 99 GTP programming (since I have purchased DHP Powrtuner already) and do the programming myself. On top of this I have spent my own money and time driving to my customer's location and swap these PCM's out for him. I am trying to keep a cool head about this but my customer is no very happy to say the least.
I am to the point that I refuse to spend any more money on shipping for PCMs. I want to know what you are going to do for us. Honestly, I feel as though we have bent over backwards and have remained flexible as long as possible but we still come back to this point: THE PCM PROGRAMMING IS NOT RIGHT. I feel personally responsible in this effort as I recommended your services to my customer based on your claims on the mailing lists and message boards concerning OBDII 3800 custom programming ability. I have been very patient and have been willing to work with you on this matter. But as I said before I have gone over my personal, and my customer's budget concerning this issue and we would like to know what you are prepared to do to make this right. My customer thinks that we should be refunded all of the shipping costs (outside of the inital shipping fee for the first custom PCM) in addition to getting another PCM that is programmed correctly for his application. I, on the other hand, understand the potential pitfalls of PCM programming and, at most, would like at least 1/2 of our shipping costs refunded with no further out-of-pocket costs for shipping to be our responsibility from here on.
The pervervial ball is in your court. Please advise us on what you are planning to do for us to make this right.
-ryan |
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This is where me and Ryan have our 2nd phone conversation in all this time, but I have tried to call the other number he provided and just get a busy signal and no voice mail. I call the EDITED number above and we have a 78.16 minute conversation about OBDII and just general Fiero stuff. We part ways as friends trying to resolve a customer problem that I have taken on as a problem to help fix. This is now 11/23 and I don’t have the PCM tag number for the new PCM I sent…. This is part of the conversation that Ryan will get it. I wait until 11/25 and still no email.. I suspected that the PCM was a 09380717, which I did not have another one in stock… I emailed Pete Disbennet to get a phone number from him to ask the tag number. Ryan had included Pete in several emails as a CC.. Pete was part of this conversation as far as I was concerned. It was purely my intentions to help get this resolve and NOT cause any delays. I purchased a 09380717 2nd day air shipping to my house on a Friday to get it Monday. Pete emails me his phone number on Monday 11/29…. HOWEVER Ryan emails me this email on 11/29 also…
| quote | Tag on PCM in the car now says:
Service Number 09380717
HDW Number 09357440
The only trouble codes that are coming up and we need disabled are:
P0449
P0452
P1260
Other than that engine has been running fine and trans shifts great. Please ship PCM to my address:
Ryan Gick
2503 W 68th St
Davenport, IA 52806
----- Original Message -----
From: FastFieros
To: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 12:33 AM
Subject: RE: New PCM test results Ok, lets just get this guys car running 100%, and hopefully it will be resolved with the next PCM… Service number on the white tag so I can duplicate it. It was only one of 2 choices, but I was in too big hurry to get the PCM to you that day and forgot to write it down. I am awaiting your return from your vacation to send the PCM so it does not sit on your doorstep is what I remember you indicating also. Nice to finally chat with you via phone. I really hate to type, and emails are taken so wrong, just like postings on the forums… Thanks…. Loyde |
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Now, I have no real reason to call Pete, so I don’t…. 11/30 I get an email from Pete… (sorry pete to quote you, I will edit your phone number)
| quote | I sent you a reply but did not here from you. Let me know when you would like to call or send me a e-mail at my home as this is my work e-mail address and I leave work at 3:30 pm central time. disbenet@??????????.net 309-289-???? ( edited by LOYDE because it is Pete’s number and email address)
Walter (Pete) Disbennett
-----Original Message-----
From: FastFieros [mailto:FastFieros@FastFieros.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2004 10:34 AM
To: Pete Disbennet
Subject: regarding your 3800sc
I would like to chat with you via phone. Please provide me a number and time to call. I will wait until maybe Saturday, or your convenience. Thanks
Loyde
972-880-6643 |
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Now… its 11/30… I still do not call Pete, because I really didn’t have anything to say… Now … its 12/1 … Pete CALLS me… I am driving down the road and I have to pull over to have a decent conversation with him to avoid cell site jumping… The conversation was about 20 minutes, and it just entailed me explaining the problems with OBDII programming today, but in general all issues can be worked out with time… He was satisfied with that, and we ended the conversation as friends. Then on 12/3 I send a email to Ryan to ask if all is going well with the new PCM…. I get this email …..
| quote | Got the PCM yesterday unfortuneately Pete has prior obligations this weekend so I won't get to install it until monday. About the "typical" threads concerning personal service for PCM programming....
There is a reason why we (my customer and I) came to you. It was because you claimed to be the best (in a manner of speaking at least concerning the Fiero), and you were all over the message boards and 3800 mailing lists telling everyone how good you were and how great OBDII is. I can even think of a specific thread on Pennocks where you were trying to convince FieroX to switch to OBDII since it is "so much better".
Well here we are. You are not DHP and you are not Intense so why are you trying to compare yourself with them? There is a reason WHY I didn't select Intense, I thought I explained that to you on the phone. I came to you because you said you had experience with this type of tuning and you could get the job done "NO PROBLEM". I took those words in your email at face value and that is what I told my customer.
Look, I am not a dumbass. I have been doing chips for over 4 years now and I have come a long way in this business. I don't profess to be an expert in this field but I do have a college degree in high performance automotive which, at the very least, has taught me to MAKE IT CLEAR to my customers that this type of job can't be perfect unless the car is here where I can spend a day tuning it, at least as far as trying to tune heavily modded engines is concerned. Just diabling VATS and turning off a few trouble codes does not require a lot of "seat time" to get right. I don't want to hear any more excuses about your software and this generic DTC list BS. I am sure you have access to the same online GM service manual data that I do, and it has the complete trouble code list used per year/make/model vehicle system you are working with. In addition to this, you own the tuning software, and according to you, you have been working with OBDII for over 2 years so you should know what you are doing. If you don't or your software is "buggy", then maybe you should list that info on your website so this sort of thing doesn't happen to you again. At the very least, you could have told me in that FIRST email about the limitations of your software in disabling trouble codes.
Again Loyde, nothing personal here but I did not appreciate the tone you took with me in the beginning of our phone conversation NOR did I appreciate you going behind my back to talk to MY customer without my knowledge. What kind of crap are you trying to pull? Enough with the BS, I am willing to overlook these issues we have had if you can manage to keep your mouth shut about how great OBDII is and how YOU can do ANYTHING with it, because that is not the truth. I think our experience with this whole deal is proof of that.
Anyway, once I have installed and tested this latest PCM and it meets to my customer's satisfaction, I will be happy to ship the 2 "incorrect" PCMs back to you once you have paid for the shipping.
Happy Holidays,
-ryan
----- Original Message -----
From: FastFieros
To: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 5:24 PM
Subject: PCM get to you ok? Checking on your progress getting with Pete again on the PCM.. Here is a typical thread that people deal with when getting personal service for PCM programming. http://www.clubgp.com/newforum/tm.asp?m=1862590&p=1&tmode=1&smode=1 There are many on CGP about DHP and Intense both. They have a base configuration that gets the job done, but when it comes to the custom stuff it takes weeks. Loyde |
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It appears Ryan cannot pick up a phone and have an intelligent conversation when he has a problem… So now 12/4 I decide to call the only working number I have and now I find out its his girlfriends. HERES the story you all have been waiting for… What did I say to this girl in response to the posting she made to this thread http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/055969-3.html
I called the girlfriend (heather) number and left this voice mail in response to the above email….. The greeting was GENERIC…. No female voice, No this is heathers phone… Completely unknown to me that this was Heathers voice mail… I left this message….. Ryan, I am not trying to go behind your back and have a conversation with Pete. I called Pete to get the service number of the PCM.. He emailed back after I got the numbers from you, and I did not call Pete. PETE called me. The voice mail as about 40 seconds worth and I told him to call me when he had a problem… Hung up and I see the posting from Heather in the above thread. Wow, I thought, I better apologize to her. So I call the number again, and I get Heather. Right off I apologize for calling the number I was given by Ryan as his number. She very clearly indicates she does not get into this business affairs and he does not use that phone for those affairs. She made some comment that triggered me to just ask, “aren’t you guys married?” she then indicated engaged… I apologized again for the intrusion and about that time it was “click”….. So, as you can imagine I waited on the next email …. It is this one… .
| quote |
12/4 ….First off I don't appreciate the rude phone calls. If you have something to say TO ME you can say it to me in an email unless you have something to hide (or something you are going to BS about on the phone and then convienently forget you said it later). Second of all, it is NONE OF YOUR FUC?KING BUSINESS WHAT MY RELATIONSHIP IS WITH MY WOMAN. And you want to lecture me about what is RUDE, thats just upsurd. (EDITED cruse word so it would not get censored by LOYDE )
I don't know the reason WHY you tried contacting my customer but it doesn't matter. I put his car together and I have the answers. If you have a question you can ask me. I find it fishy that you both tried to contact him AND posted in my PFF thread on thanksgiving day, the same day you KNEW I was going to be out of town. Well my email account is my lifeline to my customers and I always carry my laptop with me wherever I go so they can contact me. I don't normally give out my phone numbers because I don't have time to BS on the phone answering basic repair questions when I have work to do in the shop or when I am attending family functions. If you need to talk to me you can do it here. I check my email at least once daily. If you are not capable of expressing yourself via email I suggest you learn how.
I have been very patient and professional towards you publically. However if you persist with the BS I will not hesitate to plaster all of the emails you have sent to me during this PCM programming debacle all over the message boards and mailing lists to prove to everyone you CANNOT provide the flawless service you claim. Yes, everyone will know that if I would have listened to your advice in your emails, I would have been pulling a transmission out of Pete's car to fix a problem that was a PCM programming issue. Everyone will also know that you have a problem with disabling the correct trouble codes in an OBDII PCM for a Fiero swap.
My suggestion to you is to drop this BS right now. I have publically restrained myself thus far and have extended you professional courteousy . But if you persist with your rude phone calls and blame-something or someone else email and internet game, I will have no choice but to make the truth clear to EVERYONE about your business practices and what REALLY HAPPENED. Enough is enough. Drop it.
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This was my response to Ryan… 12/4….
| quote | | LOYDE response…… You are the not the person in the Fiero community I thought you were. You are not here to actually help people, but to thieve on the all mighty dollar. I had great faith in your ability for hybrid installs to recommend you to people on the east coast, but I can assure you, I will never again. You are a confused person to hide behind a keyboard to cruse and feel like a big man.. I at least face my problems best I can face to face, or when distance is a issue, by phone so no misunderstanding of context is taken. Loyde
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So, this brings us to this point of who is right, who is wrong. He said, she said, and even some he said again…. Its not my place to really understand all the things that happen in life. I just try to live one day at a time. The resolution to this for me was get Pete a working PCM… After the conversation with Ryan that lasted 78 minutes I thought we could work together and he was OBDI dedicated and I was OBDII dedicated. Ryan really hates OBDII. I could care less which computer someone uses. Fact is, if you want to run the 4T65eHD transmission you have to have OBDII to shift it. Now as to the HP Tuners software.. The flaws I found just occurred on October 15th time frame… It is in the transmission section and it may even be do to the release of 1.5. I have been in conversation with HP Tuners about this. In the November time frame I had a customer car here that I was having problems with the 3.69 gear change. Turns out not even DHP gets the 3.69 right in the software very often so ZZP had me change the reluctor on the diff. Then I wanted to finally use the DHP programmer I have also. Charles provided me with an OSID that was compatible with the HPTuners software and the PowrTuner software. This really helped to resolve the transmission issues between the customer car I had here, and the car Ryan was working on. HP Tuners is not interested in the V6 community 100% because the real money is in the V8 community with the LS1, LS2, LS4, LS6, and upcoming LS7. OK, in closing.. I want to say avoid ME Loyde Rascoe Fastfieros.com or whatever you want to call me if you DO NOT WANT Personal one on one customer service at no fee via phone 24x7 but please 10am – 10pm central time out of respect….
Personal “whatever it takes approach” to solving your PCM and hybrid installs problems
Someone that is here for the Fiero community 100% and has been for 8 years now. I have no further plans to post on this topic regardless of what Ryan comes back with. I have included the emails to the best I can and only made changes to protect heather and pete. Loyde Rascoe
972-880-6643
http://www.fastfieros.com
http://www.ls1swap.com/forums
http://www.ntfc.org [This message has been edited by FastFieros (edited 12-05-2004).]
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Some of his work.
