No, these are people who go out of their way to break the rules and piss people off... Big difference! And they do it because they know there is no sort of consequences for their actions...

This CRAP is posted in General Fiero Chat because this guy started causing all this CRAP in General Fiero Chat and then started sending e-mails to all of us who called him on his CRAP in General Fiero Chat. This is not a political thread. This is not a thread trying to sell a Honda. This is something that is directly related to this Fiero forum and started right here in this section. And I would think that my almost 8000 posts that you point out would show that I have spent a lot of time here trying to help those people who come here to look up Fiero stuff.

What is amazing is how many people jump on the bandwagon to argue with the people who try to do good here on the forum instead of the troublemakers.

The Punisher, no offence to you but you are what I call a "Post Whore"...every post, ya gotta have a say in... like common!!! You registered in July 2004 and you have 816 posts! All I gotta say is WTF! Now I know this is a Forum and you can have you OPINION but geeez just remember that those little useless comments will wreck your reputation...If I wanted to I could go into every thread and post something stupid and get a great post rating but people will still know I’m a post whore and depending on the info I gave they’d still know my intelligence...

Archie, I dont know you but if i were a judge id have to go on your side because this Bookster has NO proof that he has sent **** . ANYONE CAN SEE THIS I didnt have to goto college for Law to see this (well...I got Security and Law diploma ha ha). Again I’m not taking sides here but Bookster has to show some proof. There, end of story...have some proof...come back

MstangsBware, I totally agree with you, opinions are a big part of forums BUT theres a difference between opinions and posting useless crap...Are you suggesting we get rid of the rating bar? Would this solve the "people are afraid of telling it how it is"? I'm just asking because I couldent care if it was there or not but you do got a point. I know for a fact ill probably get a Red line for this...for what? My opinion. I remember SmooothGT got a negative rating as did some of the other membersfor "changing" the fiero. Big wings are a "No-No" on a fiero, haveta give a negative....ewww lights! thats Rice!!!...click the little negitive...thats not what a rating system is for. People that are here regularly know whos who, and who know what there talking about...I dont think we need a little meter to show that.

I apologize for my rant guys and gals but I just hate it when I see the forum getting broken up like this over small things…

I come here because I LOVE fieros and talking to people that share my interests too. I NEVER go into O/T cuz of crap like this...but it somehow got into General Fiero chat so maybe next time ill skip this and just go into Tech. but maybe itll find its way into Tech then where do me and my little fieros have to go

I gotta disagree a bit here. The ratings, while they may get abused on occasion, are a reflection of what the forum members think of you, or what you think of other members. As Cliff has said before, it's a tool so the group can moderate itself. Yes, we've all got opinions, and many times people don't agree. But it's not the difference in opinion that causes most of the problems, it's how those differences get presented. I've seen a lot of disagreements here that are civil, polite discussions, and others that just turn into flame wars.

Calling an internet forum a society is a bit of a stretch, but it's kind of a mini-society. And all societies have rules of conduct. We may not like or agree with all the rules, but they're there nonetheless. If you're with a group of people in "real life", you tend to have a bit of self-moderation and decorum. But when we get on the internet, sometimes we shut off the filter between our brains and the keyboard.

I appreciate the kind words ("too fair" and "too nice" are compliments in my book), but that isn't the only problem. The problem is that most of the banned members that get back, get back because I didn't "catch" them getting back. Like I've said before, I have a few things in place that help me determine if a new registration is likely a banned member re-registering.

This works pretty well - I would even say that I catch a banned member 4 out of 5 times. Problem of course is that if a banned member tries hard enough, he will eventually get back on.

For instance, "bookster" was banned and he got right back on. I did not catch that. None of the things I have in place raised a red flag. On the other hand, I did catch another member trying to register while his username wasn't banned yet (but very, very close).

Others I let back on if either some period of time has elapsed, or if they show some kind of remorse. "I'm Back" was let back on because it had been quite some time since he was banned (I think it was a few years). "The Punisher" was let back on because he (they) convinced me they would stay out of trouble this time and again because it had been a few years since he was banned.

Others got back on because I never noticed they re-registered. But it's not only my responsibility to catch them. It's yours (the members) as well. I often read these messages on the forum where people are complaining that I let a certain member back on, yet they have done nothing themselves to let me know they were back on. You want to know how many heads-ups I've received the past year from members warning me user "X" is in reality banned member "Y"? One. Yes, a single one.

I just banned the new username of "bookster" yesterday. Not because somebody told me this was in fact bookster, but because I read in a thread somewhere that somebody was complaining I had let him back on. So again, complaining I let him back on but not taking the trouble of emailing or PM me that bookster was in fact back on.

You know, it's easy to point the finger at me for the trouble fomerly banned members are causing. But there are only a very few people here that are actively helping me trying to keep this place clean. And with "helping", I'm not talking about mentioning something in one of the few thousand new messages that are posted here every day. I'm talking about warning me through email or PM if a thread gets out of hand, or if they have spotted a banned member with a new username. Apparantly, people not only expect me to read every single message here on the forum, they also expect me to do a background check of every member that registers. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to do that. Ever.

I know it's getting old, but I will say it again. PFF is mostly a self-moderating forum. That means it's your responsibility too to keep this place clean. There are over 10,000 members. PFF is being visited by more than 1000 unique visitors each and every day. At any given day, around 500 members post a message. Yet there's only ONE member that regularly warns me when he sees a thread (or member) getting out of hand.

It's like when an accident happens and none of the bystanders can be bothered to call 911, but everybody complains why it takes so long for the police and paramedics to get there.

Most of us here I think will give this responsibilty the respect it deserves, while others will obviously take advantage of the 'self-rule' that we have going on here. It is just too easy for a person to be a jerk on an internet forum because there is no real life accountability. And that is a problem that I don't know that we'll ever find a solution for..

You know, Punisher is ALWAYS insinuating that someone is gay, or, as he puts it, ghey. Why is that important to him? Is he projecting his deepest desires? Hey, Pun, do you have something ya wanna tell us about? C'mon, you can tell us...after all, you're safe behind your keyboard...it's not like any of us can "out" you or anything...

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I'd like to make a suggestion to help encourage people to help out.. next to the (quote) button of each post, have a (REPORT POST) icon.. if a thread or person gets out of hand then people can report it as simply as a little click.. maybe even have them type in a message to give you a heads up whats going on.

Ditto. Is there going to be a Wheatstock next year?