Denso Iridium spark plugs, No hype!, a real gain (Page 4/8)
fotofrank SEP 10, 12:14 PM
My 2 cents worth.
What do I know. not much, I quess. I read an artical on spark plugs that was VERY interesting.(you can find it on the NIFE club site) The "reschearch" was conducted by, I belive, Jacobs Ignition. In this study differant plugs where tested with Multi-Spark ignition, after-market boxes. It seems that if platinum plugs are used with a stock ignition an improvement is "Dyno'ed". If the Platinum plugs are used with an after market box a loss, comparied to "copper" plugs was noted. So If you have an after market box use copper plugs. Stock ignition, use platinum.
Another seemingly little know fact is the effect of the gap. The idea, for performance, not gas mileage, is to have the largest instantainious spark kernal possible. That can lead one to belive that opening the spark gap on copper plugs and using an aftermarket ignition should improve things. I personally belive this but have no hard facts to show. I have often run my '84 SE Duke (with MSD6A box and Blaster coil)with the gap set at 0.070 or 0.065 (stock is 0.060). The engine runs, plugs don't foul and mileage may be a bit less as well as seeming to have more pull. Note I said seemingly.
What many of us forget is a performance car is not just ignition, or plugs or cam, etc but the whole thing. Therefore Engine tuning(read timing) plug type and gap, cam and or rocker/roller rocker ratio, tires(diameter) and transmission(final drive ratio) as well as intake, EFI/Carb and exhaust mean very much.
Many of us spend time and money on high flow exhaust systems. It is a know fact that WITHOUT exhaust backpressure the car( read engine) will NOT operate at it's most efficant. It was noted some years ago , amoung circle track racers, that the addition of the propper collector and MUFFLER incressed the performance of the race buildt engine over one without a mufler.

So my take on all this is that each one of you can be right based on the car, engine condition, timing, and mods on the car you drive. Remember gang---performance is not just hourse power put the amount of torque you put on the ground. You know, that great feeling when accelerating and being pushed back in the seat. So you want to go fast (high top speed) or be quick(stoplight to stoplight). Once you decide that, build your car accordingly. You cannot have both.
So now I'm going to sit back and wait for the comments and be told I'm all wrong, HP is everything, gap doesn't mater, platinum is best, tire size is for looks and "snake oil" is slick. Have fun and keep Fiero-ing and have fun. Thats what we are all about, having fun with our cars.
P.S. I use (since 1964) CHAMPION spark plugs and have not ever had a problem. Damn lucky you say!------------------


[This message has been edited by fotofrank (edited 09-10-2002).]

2fn4wrds SEP 10, 12:39 PM

quote
Originally posted by Rogue_Ant:
I agree.
2fn4wrds, we are not trying to be mean, but don't come here and then tell us we don't know anything. There is _a lot_ of very informed people on this forum. Rogue


Now that were all heated, let's clear some things up. I never said you did'nt know anything. The way you dismiss something new without personally researching it is shortsighted. From the begining I said I felt a SLIGHT IMPROVEMENT with these plugs, and others agreed. Did you read that? Again, did you actually read what I said about the plug. All you are interested in is how much hp my engine has. Thats not what this thread is about. I believe my engine is producing something between 190-200hp at the crank. I also believed that before the plugs went in. When it gets dynoed before the turbo goes in I'll post the results, even if its 170 or whatever. I also believe the chip that was made just for my car from the canadian company WESTERS G. gave me an honest 20hp. This thread is'nt about wether or not my car passes your probability test it's a about informing those that have'nt heard about the small but significant gains thousands of racers are getting with this technology. Go research it yourself and you'll stop trying to debate this iridium technology you know nothing about. The results are in for those who care. In the meantime my little red fiero is a blast and runs perfectly. One of the top ten funnest cars ever made ( when properly set up ). don't forget to be thankful today. 9/11/01 P.S. Rogue, where did you get this " now I have a race car " line.
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87'gt 3.4L

[This message has been edited by 2fn4wrds (edited 09-10-2002).]

2fn4wrds SEP 10, 01:13 PM

quote
Originally posted by fotofrank:
[B]My 2 cents worth.
B]

Fotofrank, your balanced, consider-all-the-angles approach is right on. Example; I know of those who in there attempt to increase hp have increased there exhaust size to 2 1/2" to gain a little top end flow but reduced the seat slam noticeably. Not that 2 1/2" would'nt be right in a given setup but it's all about synergy, yes? Especially with turbos you need to keep enough backpressure. Bigger is'nt always better. Better is better ya know. Anyway, I'm glad you responded to this with your 2 cents. Your attitude is worth hundreds.

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87'gt 3.4L

[This message has been edited by 2fn4wrds (edited 09-10-2002).]

revin SEP 10, 01:30 PM
I could give a rat a$$ about the "dynoed hp"

All he was doing was saying that the new spark plugs (that I never heard of) made his car run better and smoother. THAT'S IT ! oh and they cost $$

So what if he said 200 hp !
So why do ya'll have to ALWAYS be correct? none of ya'll have the exact same set up do you? what differance does it make to YOU ?

I swear you guys go off on the weirdest things... just calm down!

JEDI SEP 10, 01:55 PM

quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:
Furthermore, from that cowardly sneek attack by the Japs we lost a lot of good men at Pearl Harbor...


I try not to allow what many Japanese grandparents did affect the way I live with the current generation. Were you there or know someone there?

2fn4wrds SEP 10, 02:19 PM

quote
Originally posted by revin:
[B]I could give a rat a$$ about the "dynoed hp"

All he was doing was saying that the new spark plugs (that I never heard of) made his car run better and smoother. THAT'S IT ! oh and they cost $$

B]



Actually, I said that it made my already great running car pull slightly but noticably better when I took out my six months old perfectly gaped autolite platinum plugs and put in the DENSO IRIDIUM plugs at the factory .045. This is'nt a commercial just my experience. 4 months now without a problem or change in power. And for the record, again I have a low mile 95' 3.4 motor w/all new ac/delco ignition parts, MSD coil and new taylor wires and a few other things I already wrote about. Thanks Revin for your input.

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87'gt 3.4L

[This message has been edited by 2fn4wrds (edited 09-10-2002).]

Will SEP 10, 03:29 PM
Off topic, but there are LOTS of back pressure misconceptions around here.

Back pressure and turbos: back pressure is the absolute enemy of turbos. The higher your back pressure (downstream of the turbine) the less work you get out of your exhaust gas as it expands across the turbine. It's all about pressure ratio across the turbine, which is maximized when pressure downstream of the turbine is as low as possible.

Aside from that, back pressure hurts performance, period. The less work an engine has to do to get the exhuast gas out of the cylinder, the more work is available at the flywheel.

Now, I have to qualify that. Engines are not just dynamic, they are cyclic. As such, flow momentum and resonance play a LARGE part in exhaust gas scavenging.

Going to a 2.5" exhaust on a 1.6 litre Honda kills what little low end it had, not because the exhaust has a lower back pressure, but because the flow velocity is not high enough. In any exhaust pipe the momentum of the first gas forced out of a cylinder keeps the gas going to the point that when there is no more pressure difference across the "plug" of gas traveling down the pipe it still keeps going, and "pulls" the gass behind it, creating a low pressure area which further scavenges the cylinder. Low pressure at the exhaust valve == better performance. What is counter-intuitive is that this happens when the pipe diameter is optomized not maximized.

Doug Chase SEP 10, 03:32 PM

quote
Originally posted by 2fn4wrds:
Actually does feel like there's a slight hp gain, (maybe 5) no joke!


quote

From the begining I said I felt a SLIGHT IMPROVEMENT with these plugs, and others agreed.

<snip>

it's a about informing those that have'nt heard about the small but significant gains


Sorry, dude, but horsepower is measured on a dyno, not by seat of the pants. If you're going to come here and start talking numbers you need to back it up with dyno sheets. Hell, my seat of the pants meter tells me that my car runs smoother and quicker after I've changed the oil, but I know that's not the case.

If you don't want to pay for dyno runs then borrow a G-tech, do a bunch of baselines runs, then change plugs and see what changes. If you can feel it in the seat of your pants it'll be measureable by a G-tech.

Don't take the skepticism as a personal attack. There's always somebody trying to sell 5hp for $50 whether it's spark plugs, plug wires, an intake air swirler, Holly air scoop, or a resistor to fool some temperature sensor. If you want to make hp claims, be prepared to back it up with numbers.


quote

Especially with turbos you need to keep enough backpressure.

Ha ha. Funny. I hope you didn't find this in the same "research" you did on your spark plugs.

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Doug Chase
Duvall, WA
'88 Fiero Formula 5-spd (autocrosser)
'88 Fiero GT 5-spd (daily driver)
'85 Fiero GT 4-spd (rally car)

gearjammer1980 SEP 10, 05:43 PM

quote
Originally posted by 2fn4wrds:
Here in southern cal they sell for $70.00 or so for six. Just writing that seems like a ridiculous price for plugs but they really are somethin' special, at least in my car. The plug I used was #ITF16. A colder plug for turbos or iron 4's would be ITF20.



Whooo! Good Lord..Well, that's gonna be something for later then, ha..Thanks..

JMunilla87GT SEP 10, 06:17 PM
all he was saying was he FELT a SLIGHT improvement. To a lot of people the dyno doesn't matter, just seat of the pants. If you feel like your car is faster then it is(at least to you). I don't think he was coming on here to boast about how much HP he had. This thread probably would have been more appropriate in General Chat, and MAYBE more well received. I personally don't think I would spend that kind of money for a set of plugs. I also think it is a bunch of fluff, but that is just MHO. anyways just another 2 cents.

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Josh