Landscaper Under Fire for Refusing to Work for Gays (Page 35/65)
Boondawg NOV 13, 08:33 PM

quote
Originally posted by Patrick:


Bill, if you're referring to the ancient Greeks and/or Romans, then that was before "The Dark Ages".




For my part, I am refering to "The Dark Ages" as less a time period, and more a state of beliefs.
Not ignorence as much as a refusal to accept the posibility that the bassis of those beliefs may be rooted in falsehoods or self-gratifying traditions.
Not ALL truths that WERE, are.

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 11-13-2006).]

84Bill NOV 13, 08:35 PM

quote
Originally posted by jstricker:

I thought you said that wasn't what we were discussing?

John Stricker



If I had a gun... I'd shoot it...
If I had a hammer.. I'd nail something...

If I could ignore you... Oh... yeah I can..
Formula88 NOV 13, 08:35 PM

quote
Originally posted by Red88FF:

I do not see why it is so offensive to you that I fully except gays as part of society, respect their right to be gay, will do business with them, I have friends and even family that are gay BUT I DO NOT think it is wise to let them baby sit my grandchildren and tuck them in their beds at night. So F'ing what. It's like gays won't be happy until everyone is gay! You want to do it? fine.



It's not so much that I find it offensive as ignorant and incorrect. I look forward to reading your source, but I don't think I'd take the work of the New Yorker over that of the AMA Journal.

Do you think I would be right or wrong if I said, "I don't think it's wise to let black people near children. They are a bajillion times more likely to be cannibals."

Like I said, I'm not trying to change your opinion, just correct what appear to be incorrect assumptions and statistics.
84Bill NOV 13, 08:46 PM

quote
Originally posted by Cliff Pennock:
I'm also not sure yet what to do with the thread itself since I'm pretty sure noone will change anyone else's opinion on this subject, and it will only get more heated.




Change doesn't come by those who argue, it only comes to the un-embattled silent whose awareness has been heightened by it.

Its not the present I am arguing with but the future I am speeking to.
Patrick NOV 13, 08:47 PM

quote
Originally posted by Cliff Pennock:

...but I'm so incredibly and utterly blown away by some of the things I read here - and written by people of whom I never expected it.




Yes, it is upsetting when that happens. There are two people in this thread who I like a lot, but who I refuse to debate this topic with. One of these people I had to state my reservations (about arguing) to in this thread, and the other person has fortunately seen fit to ignore my posts as I've ignored his. It's tough when we don't see eye to eye with our friends, but it happens. At some point we have to decide in these situations if we wish to remain friends, but so far, I'd prefer to do that and leave the lines of communication open.
jstricker NOV 13, 08:48 PM
In a debate such as this there are THREE (3) sides you can be on.

1) There is absolutely nothing wrong with homosexuality and you will work to make sure it is accepted in society and given every protection given to race, sex, and age.
2) You don't agree that homosexuality is normal and don't wish to be associated with it (for whatever reason) but really don't care what people do as long as they leave you out of it.
3) You don't agree that homosexuality is normal and in fact want it abolished legally and persecuted in every way possible.

I am of the #2 camp. I think it's wrong. I think it's an abhorrent practice. But whatever YOU think of it and YOU do with it I really don't give a flying leap as long as *I* don't have to be associated with it in any way, shape, or form.

This is not a militant attitude. This is not an attitude of persecution. It is an attitude of LEAVE ME ALONE. Practice whatever deviancies you wish, I honestly and truthfully do not care, but do not MAKE me associate myself with it or the people that practice it. Let that be MY CHOICE.

I don't understand why an attitude of "let me live MY LIFE and you can live YOURS" would "scare the crap" out of you.

What SHOULD scare the crap out of you is that people with religious convictions that politely declined to bid a job were responded to with death threats and suggestions that their children be sodomized. This is a part of the group you say I should be more tolerant of.

John Stricker

PS: and to be honest, I've tried very hard to remain civil and for the most part so has everyone else. If this debate turns ugly, I'll be gone, but as for now, I've actually enjoyed the "nudist" barbs with 84Bill and I'll be he's had a smile or two on his face as well.


quote
Originally posted by Cliff Pennock:


OMG.

I'm sorry, but you people scare the crap out of me. And I'm truly sorry I got into this discussion, even with only two posts. I probably should have stayed out of it but I'm so incredibly and utterly blown away by some of the things I read here - and written by people of whom I never expected it. My comparison might be nonsense to you, but to us, to most europeans, this is incomprehensible. And I'm not sure yet what to do with it. I really wish I had never seen this thread because it has completely changed the way I see certain people.

I'm also not sure yet what to do with the thread itself since I'm pretty sure noone will change anyone else's opinion on this subject, and it will only get more heated.

So for know I'm simply out of this discussion.
texasfiero NOV 13, 08:49 PM
There have been a number of references to 'Christians' and their 'hatred' of homosexuality. Most Christians believe that it is sin and upon that belief they attempt to control it in society as with alcohol, prostitution, and gambling. We believe that participating in these, among some other activities is degrading and lead to destruction of society. Whether they result in health issues (aids), poverty (gambling), or in many cases theft, taking a human life or whatever, our society suffers. Romans 6:23 says that the wages of sin is death. These acts affect our country financially. The costs of prisons, law enforcement, and health care devastate our finances. I've not event mentioned the destruction of family life. We are paying a horrible toll for the 'rights' we've bestowed under the fear of discrimination.

What I'd like to ask here, and several of you have accused Christians of 'hatred' and 'discrimination', why ONLY Christians. Here is a link http://www.alinaam.org.za/library/homos.htm

Why don't you also attack other 'religions' of hatred of gays? Are you biased negatively toward Christians?

Jesus said, "they will hate you because they hated me".

[This message has been edited by texasfiero (edited 11-13-2006).]

jstricker NOV 13, 08:50 PM
No you can't (and you know it).

Besides, you already told me you love me.

And I have a hairy chest.

John Stricker

quote
Originally posted by 84Bill:


If I had a gun... I'd shoot it...
If I had a hammer.. I'd nail something...

If I could ignore you... Oh... yeah I can..



Boondawg NOV 13, 08:52 PM

quote
Originally posted by Cliff Pennock:


OMG.

I'm sorry, but you people scare the crap out of me. And I'm truly sorry I got into this discussion, even with only two posts. I probably should have stayed out of it but I'm so incredibly and utterly blown away by some of the things I read here - and written by people of whom I never expected it. My comparison might be nonsense to you, but to us, to most europeans, this is incomprehensible. And I'm not sure yet what to do with it. I really wish I had never seen this thread because it has completely changed the way I see certain people.

I'm also not sure yet what to do with the thread itself since I'm pretty sure noone will change anyone else's opinion on this subject, and it will only get more heated.

So for know I'm simply out of this discussion.



For my part, you can lock it down.
But I'm sure it will die on it's own.
With nothing settled.

I'm fine with that.
I never expect to change minds, nor do I try.
(Although, I must admit, I wait for the day when someone says to me, "WOW! You really opened my eyes to a new way of thinking about this. I think I need to re-examine how I look at that. Thank you." It's a selfish, secret wish I dream about, just for me.)

For those here that I dissagree with, I may not admire you beliefs, but I do the strength with which you hold them.
But it may be benifitcal for you to loosen your grip on them just a little every once in awhile to allow new ways of thinking to enter into your belief system. It takes nothing from you, and may add to you a new, less strict way of looking at things.

Being flexable is what has kept this spiecies around as long as it has been.

Thanks for the interesting viewpoints in conversation.
I'm out.

No harm, no foul.

P.S. No Humans were rated in the particapation of this debate.
Scott-Wa NOV 13, 08:54 PM

quote
Originally posted by Cliff Pennock:


OMG.

I'm sorry, but you people scare the crap out of me. And I'm truly sorry I got into this discussion, even with only two posts. I probably should have stayed out of it but I'm so incredibly and utterly blown away by some of the things I read here - and written by people of whom I never expected it. My comparison might be nonsense to you, but to us, to most europeans, this is incomprehensible. And I'm not sure yet what to do with it. I really wish I had never seen this thread because it has completely changed the way I see certain people.

I'm also not sure yet what to do with the thread itself since I'm pretty sure noone will change anyone else's opinion on this subject, and it will only get more heated.

So for know I'm simply out of this discussion.




Your reaction is why people like me reply to threads like this... we don't want the record to show stuff like this without a response.