Landscaper Under Fire for Refusing to Work for Gays (Page 3/65)
blackrams NOV 11, 06:05 PM

quote
Originally posted by 84Bill:
If you admit to that in court John... you will be found guilty of discrimination and probably fined heavily. Better keep your hate intolorance preference to yourself.



Has Sexual Orientation been added to the Anti-Discrimination rules? Damn, I didn't know that.

------------------
Ron
Land of the Free because of the Brave. Most gave some, some gave all.
My imagination is the only limiting factor to my Fiero. Well, there is that money issue.

jstricker NOV 11, 06:07 PM
Bill,

Time = Money. If I'm forced to work for someone I'm forced to give my time, whether I'm compensated for it or not. I would presume that whoever I was working for thought they were getting MORE than they were paying for or they would just do it themselves. There is no difference.

John Stricker

quote
Originally posted by 84Bill:

I amended my previous post.

Thats just it, you arent supporting them but this thread isn't about that issue, it's about them supporting you and your business as a landscaper who refuses a service based solely on sexual orentation / preferences.
84Bill NOV 11, 06:09 PM
Well... it does appear to be the topic of discussion. Should it be? I believe it should. No reson to discrminate on the basis of X because we are supposed to be a progressive nation with a wide variety of cultures who are supposed to tolorant of one another. I thought thats what being American was all about and what makes us a great country.. I suppose you are right and I am wrong?


quote
Originally posted by blackrams:
Has Sexual Orientation been added to the Anti-Discrimination rules? Damn, I didn't know that.
jstricker NOV 11, 06:11 PM
That's BS too, Boonie, and you know it. If you come and ask me to work for you and I just say "no, I don't want to work for you" the next thing out of your mouth (if I'm in that line of work) is "WHY??". At that point, I either tell the truth or lie.

I choose the truth, I can't imagine why I should have to choose any other way.

Also, I'm not talking about something or someone I "like". I'm talking about a lifestyle choice that my religion and personal beliefs say is wrong. Tolerance does not mean we have to SUPPORT people doing things we believe to be evil and wrong.

John Stricker

quote
Originally posted by Boondawg:


John, I never said lie.
I did, however, allude to omission.
Omission, becouse a personal opinion of someone, espiecally a client, should be kept just that, personal.

Good buisness keeps personal feelings about the customer out of it.
I know, I deal with it every day.
If I only served people I personally like, we'd be out of buissness.
It's not my job to approve or dissapprove of how they live thier life.
As a matter-of-fact, it's none of my buisness, and should have no bearing on the quality of service they can expect.
At the very least, no more so then anyone else is entitled to.



84Bill NOV 11, 06:12 PM

quote
Originally posted by jstricker:

Bill,

Time = Money. If I'm forced to work for someone I'm forced to give my time, whether I'm compensated for it or not.
SNIP:

John Stricker



No body is forcing you to do anything. If you cant do the job thgen say "no, I cant do the job." Instead this ass clown is saying "I wont do the job because I hate gays" That not a justifyable reason... its discriminatory.
blackrams NOV 11, 06:18 PM

quote
Originally posted by 84Bill:
Well... it does appear to be the topic of discussion. Should it be? I believe it should. No reson to discrminate on the basis of X because we are supposed to be a progressive nation with a wide variety of cultures who are supposed to tolorant of one another. I thought thats what being American was all about and what makes us a great country.. I suppose you are right and I am wrong?



I believe that is the issue, can a business owner not sell his/her service or product to a specific group, in this case gays. What if they choose to not sell to drug dealers or gangs because what the potential customer represented was against their religios beliefs. Now you've got a religious freedom issue. BTW, my post above was an honest question, not meant as a flame.
Tolerance, that road goes both ways, seems to me the gay dudes should understand and be tolerant of the businesses beliefs. It does go both ways doesn't it? Hmm, maybe not.

------------------
Ron
Land of the Free because of the Brave. Most gave some, some gave all.
My imagination is the only limiting factor to my Fiero. Well, there is that money issue.

jstricker NOV 11, 06:18 PM
Again, you throw the word "hate" around and nothing in the original post even comes close to making that assumption. they said "I need to tell you that we cannot meet with you because we choose not to work for homosexuals." There's no hate there. They don't say you should be strung up by your testicles. No, instead THEY are threatened with being beaten and sodomized.

If we don't see the world through YOUR eyes we "hate". Screw that Bill. I don't hate anyone, but I'm still going to choose who I hire, who I work for, and who I associate with, (if you like it or not).

John Stricker

quote
Originally posted by 84Bill:


No body is forcing you to do anything. If you cant do the job thgen say "no, I cant do the job." Instead this ass clown is saying "I wont do the job because I hate gays" That not a justifyable reason... its discriminatory.
Scott-Wa NOV 11, 06:33 PM

quote
Originally posted by jstricker:

Whether you agree with their decision to work for homosexuals or not, I thought you were for INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS and shouldn't someone have the RIGHT to work for whoever they want to work for (or not work for)? Isn't that what a Libertarian is all about?


John Stricker




Individual... exactly. If as individuals they didn't want to interact with gay people, fine. As a BUSINESS they made the decision to discriminate against gays in a manner completely separate from the service they provide. Mowing someones lawn for a fee is not supporting their lifestyle. Would have been simple enough just to not submit a bid, but they decided to put something out there declaring a that they were doing it for discriminatory reasons. Not that it wouldn't be profitable, not that they had a request to do something to the yard that was against their morales. It was the people themselves. The civil rights bit pops up.. where is the line?

Libertarian in me says you have every right as an individual not to do business with a company or an individual, but as a business the individual's right to the same level of service anyone else enjoys trumps when the request is the same. If the business consists of just the couple, I'd say fine... I'd tend to believe the 'individual' rights start breaking down when you've got a company. Where exactly is that line? Can American Airlines say tomorrow that they won't allow gay people to travel on their airline? A major taxi company refusing to pick up passengers that might be frequenting a known gay club? A national restaurant chain refusing service? A high end multi million dollar steakhouse? A family run diner?

I doubt the people that put the work out for bid want the company to do the work after the letter. But what if there was only one landscaping company in town?

The line is always being pushed one way or the other. Here I don't think it effects anything except for revealing the company to be run by people that aren't to bright.
Formula88 NOV 11, 06:34 PM
Is it ok to refuse to work for black people?
We already have legal precident that says otherwise.
TorqueWench NOV 11, 06:40 PM
every dyke i know would NEVER let a Texan mow her lawn.
so yes, i believe the landscaper in houston should have the freedom to refuse to cut a gay house's grass.
he has the right to be a knob and to refuse to provide service to gays.
he does not have protection from criticism for being a knob. one of the consequences of being a knob is being called on it.
freedom to act according to your own ethics, is not the same thing as the freedom form social consequences of those actions.