Levi's sports white knots in support of gay marriage (Page 26/31)
avengador1 JUN 04, 02:32 PM
Wow, I missed that one somehow. Since Phranc quoted himself, I see it is true and I am a bit shocked.
Tone it down Phranc, that is certainly uncalled for.
Phranc JUN 04, 02:35 PM

quote
Originally posted by avengador1:

I found the correct definiton of what you are Phranc. You are a Heretic, although blasphemer and sacrilegious also suit you fine. Since you are all of these, your religious views are not to be believed, as they contradict that which us "true" Christians believe in.
You can call it brainwashing, fairy tales or whatever you want. Those of us who truly believe will get our just rewards, when the rhapsody arrives. That is our belief and faith.
The Bible is the recorded accounts and words of the saints as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. It isn't the word of God.

Be careful who you are listening to though, it could be the Devil. Just ask yourself, what would Jesus do?




True christians believe that crap they are brainwashed to believe. There are no just rewards to get. Your god is fake. Your religion is all bullcrap. But like a good little brainwashed chump of a christian you will ignore anything that shows your religion to the crap it is. There is no devil just like there is no god. What exact saints wrote the bible? When the genesis account was plagiarized from older Sumerian stories was that by a saint? Do you even know who wrote it? No you don't you aren't strong enough intellectually to question your programming. You believe what you do because you were told to. And like a good little brainwashed fool you suck it all up and replace facts with dogma. You should try critical thinking and thinking for your self. I know it will be hard and you won't try. Your programming is to deeply set in.
Phranc JUN 04, 02:38 PM

quote
Originally posted by avengador1:

Wow, I missed that one somehow. Since Phranc quoted himself, I see it is true and I am a bit shocked.
Tone it down Phranc, that is certainly uncalled for.



No it was totally called for. If he wants to act like a niger I'm going to call him one. If he wanted to be called a black man all he has to do is stop willfully acting like a niger. If its good enough for a black man to say those things its good enough for me. I'm not going to be politically correct and adhere to a racist double standard. But this forum doesn't like brutal honesty.
avengador1 JUN 04, 02:45 PM
I can honesty say now that I hope you get banned for this, never mind your "religious" beliefs. Calling another person that name (even if it is misspelled) is very low class, shocking and tasteless. May God have mercy on your soul, when your time comes, you will certainly need it by my beliefs.

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 06-04-2009).]

blackrams JUN 04, 02:53 PM
Both the rape comment and the racial slur are inappropriate, especially for civilized adults.
There is a difference in having a debate, a difference of opinion and exchanging viewpoints versus personal attacks.

I have probably been guilty of such indiscretions myself in the past so I'm not scolding anyone but I would ask all parties to be more civil and less brutal.
Being honest doesn't not have to include insulting attacks.
Actually, it's not my call, I expect Cliff will close this thread any time now.

Ron

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 06-04-2009).]

Phranc JUN 04, 03:05 PM

quote
Originally posted by avengador1:

I can honesty say now that I hope you get banned for this, never mind your "religious" beliefs. Calling another person that name (even if it is misspelled) is very low class, shocking and tasteless. May God have mercy on your soul, when your time comes, you will certainly need it by my beliefs.




No god, no soul.
frontal lobe JUN 04, 03:06 PM

quote
Originally posted by avengador1:


Do a search for the Protoevangelium of James or the Gospel of James.The Gospel of James may be the earliest surviving document attesting the veneration of Mary by stating her perpetual virginity and presenting her as the new Eve. This is why her virginity is so important.





Thanks for the explanation and the link. I got a chance to read it.


Your statements above still go back the illogic and lack of necessity that Mary be a perpetual virgin in the first place. Just the very basic premise is flawed.

If Mary is the "new Eve", which is never hinted in the Bible as being important or necessary in the first place, then Mary again has no need to be a perpetual virgin to complete that picture. Eve wasn't a perpetual virgin. She has lots of kids. And ZERO of them were virgin born.


Mary doesn't need to be a perpetual virgin to be "venerated". It is illogical. There isn't anything special or unique about being a virgin from birth to death. LOTS of women have done it.

On the contrary, for Mary to be a perpetual virgin violates actual scripture. 1 Corinthians 7 shows how God feels about marriage, and roles regarding sex. As I stated earlier, even if he was old, they had a marital relationship and 1 Corinthians 7 describes how they are to relate to each other.


So, no, after considering what you brought up, I see no reason to believe Mary was a virgin her entire life. The gospel of James contradicts the statements in the Bible, and so I reject it. When I get time later, I'll try to read some of the other things you indicated.

Having said that, I appreciate your informing me of this information so I could understand where people are coming from, and so I could evaluate it for myself. And I respect your right to come to a different conclusion. This was never about me trying to debate anyone to my position on the topic.
Phranc JUN 04, 03:09 PM

quote
Originally posted by blackrams:

Both the rape comment and the racial slur are inappropriate, especially for civilized adults.
There is a difference in having a debate, a difference of opinion and exchanging viewpoints versus personal attacks.

I have probably been guilty of such indiscretions myself in the past so I'm not scolding anyone but I would ask all parties to be more civil and less brutal.
Being honest doesn't not have to include insulting attacks.
Actually, it's not my call, I expect Cliff will close this thread any time now.

Ron




If one is insulted by being called what they are acting like maybe they should change how they act. That chump didn't. He actually continued willfully. If its ok for blacks to use the word to describe some one for the way he acts and not his race it is ok for me to do it too.
avengador1 JUN 04, 04:01 PM
Frontal Lobe, let's agree to dissagree for now, maybe you were taught differently. I was raised a Roman Catholic so your views might be different from mine. The Blessed Virgin Mary is a very important figure in our religion and she is considered to have been free of sin all of her life and also a virgin from what I was taught. I was wondering how you felt about the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary.
The Roman Catholic Church teaches as dogma that the Virgin Mary, "having completed the course of her earthly life, was assumed body and soul into heavenly glory." This means that Mary was transported into Heaven with her body and soul united.
Mary's Assumption was a divine gift to Mary as Mother of God. As Mary completed her life as a shining example to the human race, the perspective of the gift of assumption is offered to the whole human race. Maybe this is why it is so important to us Roman Catholics that she was a lifelong virgin. She is a symbol of purity and I have never read about her being referred to as anything but the virgin Mary, just the mear mention of the Virgin and Roman Catholics know who you are referring to.

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 06-04-2009).]

frontal lobe JUN 04, 04:39 PM

quote
Originally posted by avengador1:

Frontal Lobe, let's agree to dissagree for now, maybe you were taught differently. I was raised a Roman Catholic so your views might be different from mine. The Blessed Virgin Mary is a very important figure in our religion and she is considered to have been free of sin all of her life and also a virgin from what I was taught.




Hey, we can absolutely agree to disagree and ZERO animosity.

You are correct. Different life paths. My mother was catholic, and my father lutheran. But they didn't force me to go to church much, so I don't have the teaching aspect. I was 18 when I started reading the Bible and figuring things out for myself.

Don't get me wrong. No disrespect to Mary. What a wonderful person. Gives God permission to go ahead with the plan. Bears the shame of being a virgin right up to her marriage, but understandably accused of pre-marital sex. Has to run for their lives. Has to watch her son unjustly accused and crucified.

But in the CATHOLIC Bible it contains Romans 3:23 "...ALL have sinned..." Romans 5:12 "...ALL have sinned..."

Except the CATHOLIC Bible does single out ONE person as never having sinned. 2 Corinthians 5:21 "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." 1 Peter 2:21,22 21For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

22Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:


So, all have sinned. All is all. Except where specifically mentioned someone that hasn't. Jesus. So Mary is one of the all. Well, that's not a problem. Jesus needed to be sinless, so he wouldn't have his own sins to pay for and could pay for ours. Mary didn't have that role and so it wasn't important that she be sinless. Again back to original premises. There was no compelling reason why she NEEDED to be sinless. She had 2 human parents. She was a human. She was one of the all. That isn't picking on her.


So I hear you. You were taught that. And you may look at my reasoning and go, nah, I don't agree. Well, I'm not upset with you on that. No problem. In fact, I'm just trying to UNDERSTAND why it IS important to someone that she would be sinless. I'm not trying to force you to answer for everyone or justify it. I'm just trying to hear what you are thinking, because I don't see it that way.

So thanks for being willing to talk about it.