archie is gettin bashed on streetfire? (Page 24/53)
DrCPU MAR 16, 12:35 PM
One last post from me in this thread.

I think it's important to go back to the first post and the title of the thread. It all boils down to one angry unbalance individual who spends an inordinate amount of time devoted to undermining anything coming from PFF and most specifically at the SBC crowd. I was in Daytona and I was at the Dyno event. He wears his "banned" PFF shirt and taunts Fiero loving individuals - for no good reason I might add.

He did not run his car at the Dyno. He could barely even get it into gear. His sole intent was to derive some kind of unbalanced perverted delight in ruining this fun event for us. This poor fellow is driven by an urge that can only be classed as being "possessed" to destroy fun. I pray for him - he needs help - he really does.

He was banned from PFF. He was banned for a reason - not by one individual - but by the collective of PFF. He was banned for valid reasons, yet he spends an inordinate amount of time trying to bring down the group as he thinks he's been wronged.

Live by the sword - die by the sword - or in this case then pen or written word.

We all have the right to free expression, but when someone takes this right to an extreme there are outcomes. Shawn has maligned me in RTF. He did so long before we ever met. He did so from the dark recesses of another forum. For some reason he has an audience and I can only guess what those reasons might be. It's really a shame. Life is way to short to spend it in the pursuit of negative energy.

Leafy (and your not the only one), may have fallen into the Shawn trap. You're now embroilled in defending your principle when the thread was about someone willfully trying to destroy something that was good and was fun. I know it wasn't your intent - but it's all there for the world to read in the posts. You seem like a nice enough fellow and I don't make calls on anyone until I've met them face to face. Shauwn's intent to damage PFF is working - to a minor degree - now that some PFF members feelings on their right to free speech has taken root.

Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that you only need to ignore those like Shawn. He'll eventually get tired and go away. We should however expect him to continue his perverted errant ways until he matures. Maybe some day he'll get it - maybe not. I won't loose any sleep over it.

He has attempted to damage many PFF reputations and for some reason has a fixation on Archie. He'll defend himself to the death saying we are lying about numbers. We all know that's not the real reason. In my personal opinion he is mentally unstable and could easilly redirect his focus to something new in time.

Dave
DrCPU MAR 16, 12:56 PM

quote
Originally posted by Emc209i:


That's respectable, none of us have a problem with that! You drive what you love- and that's all that matters. But like everything, you can install a sbc wrong. That's what many of the people here are saying. And as for Leafy, all he's saying that a SBC is dated... which is the truth that you just concreted. You like it because that's what you grew up with. I'd probably be the same way.



If you're going to quote Leafy use his exact words - not your interpretation. He did not say "dated" he said "stone age". There is a huge difference in intent when you elect to use those words. Now you've taken his words and molified them to meet your need to say I agree - "concreted"?. Heck every technology ages - some with more finess than others.

I like the technology not just becasue I grew up with it - but because it gives me lots of options for improvement at a later stage. I mentioned that same thing with the Harley. Does that make me "wrong"? Why a need for being "right" or "wrong"?

[This message has been edited by DrCPU (edited 03-16-2008).]

Doc John MAR 16, 01:26 PM
Anybody here like Fieros?
Emc209i MAR 16, 01:27 PM

quote
Originally posted by DrCPU:


Your quote indicates to me you are younger and don't understand the mentality of the older crowd who don't care so much about technology. My harley was a pushrod with carb. It was big, underpowered, but could be built up to insane levels of power. I could do all my own wrenchin. I grew up in the days when a Nova or Vega had a SBC or LBC installed with a six pack carb setup. My buddies had the Barracudas with the 318's - three speeds. My Dad had a 63 Vette (convertible) with the base 300hp turbojet. When you started any of the engines above it is was "blub-blub, gurgle, blug blub, wraaaaaaaaaaaa" when you hit the gas. It shook at idle and the entire body would move with the pulse of the engine. When I was at a stop light with the Harley - everyone and I mean everyone would be transfixed by the engine bouncing around in the frame - I had a Dyna rubber mount.

I can't speak for other SBCers, but I want the flip flop bouncy bounce and raw low RPM torque and HP that a crate SBC gives me. They are cheap and relatively easy to have maintained compared to overhead cam engines. I know I'll get flammed for that comment. I grew up with pushrods - and even though I've got access to newer technology don't want to give up on the other niceties the older technology gives me.
Dave



Older crowd - Nostalgia - Attention - Old Technology geared towards you (the older crowd) rather than newer higher RPM technology - Ending statement (you like all of the above.) Like I said before- Good for you. If that's not the interpretation you were intending, then you need to reword it so that us younger guys get the gist.

Knowing Leafy (Sean) before the pretexts of this thread, allows me to see a more funneled view of what he's saying compared to what you read. The sbc was "dated" the year it came out in 1954 compared to its high tech foreign competitors. A double overhead cam motor was being built in production motors since 1912... Pushrod technology is beyond stone age to me, I thought he put it modestly at best. All he's doing is stating fact for how it is, not attacking you. If you're going to defend the OHV motor though, you're going to have to look at it subjectively to get anywhere.

Once again, you grew up with it and appreciate it and seeing potential- so good for you. Don't think I'm trying to put something your face - I respect your opinion. I'm not trying to defend Leafy against you either.

Back to Archie.

[This message has been edited by Emc209i (edited 03-16-2008).]

Emc209i MAR 16, 01:31 PM

quote

I like the technology not just becasue I grew up with it - but because it gives me lots of options for improvement at a later stage. I mentioned that same thing with the Harley. Does that make me "wrong"? Why a need for being "right" or "wrong"?



There is no right or wrong, everyone loves something differently.

[This message has been edited by Emc209i (edited 03-16-2008).]

FieroJimmy MAR 16, 01:43 PM

quote
Originally posted by Doc John:

Anybody here like Fieros?



I like all Fieros.

I just think some people's taste (in terms of colors/body work) is questionable. But then again, they aren't MY cars, so they're free to do as they see fit.
Doc John MAR 16, 01:57 PM
I just read something interesting - Crayola now makes crayons in a whole bunch of different colors!!!!!!!!!!

Imagine that - having choices, being able to pick the one you want. It might not be the same color the guy down the street likes, but that's o.k. Kind of neat being able to pick out the color you like - the one that's right for you. Hey, if you've saved your allowance, you can buy a pack that has eight different colors!!!

Ok, now back to the ranting. Make sure you get the last word in!
Leafy MAR 16, 02:23 PM

quote
Originally posted by Archie:


I don't know what you're screen name is on RFT but if you say your a good then that's fine by me.

However based on your comment about the SBC being stone age, it appears that you've already decided that we're not going to find any common ground. But let's try......

I don't know if a 3.5 Datsun engine makes 300 hp stock but if it does I'd still rather have a SBC that makes 300hp. Typically the SBC would make maximum HP at a much lower RPM & the SBC would make more torque & be making it at a lower RPM. You see I like to take off quickly for traffic lights & most of my driving is in the city. Around here with a SBC I can take off from a trarffic light at 2000 to 2500 RPM & get a good launch without attracting too much attention from the cops. Typically with a smaller displacement engine a person would have to take off at 3500 or more RPM to get the same result. If you're saying that the Datsun engine has to be built up to make the 300 HP then it's a shoe in that a SBC is gonna make that 300hp a lot cheaper than the 3.5 plus it's gonna make that power range I want my car to make it in.

Now, I'm into Fieros because I love the little things. I've always wanted Muscle Car power & torque in a Sports Car package. While the Fiero may not be the best Sports Car available, it gets the nod from me because of the midengine configuration that has weight as close to 50-50 as you can get & still have Muscle Car power & torque in a Sports Car package. Before I put a SBC in a Fiero I had put SBC's into a Datsun 240Z, an XKE, an Opel GT a Bug-eyed Sprite & a few others. While they had plenty of power in a straight line, the Sports Car handling was gone. The Fiero fit the bill.

If I wasn't into the Fieros, I'd be putting LSx engines into older Muscle Cars.

You didn't say if you had put that Datsun engine into a Fiero, but if you're talking about that engine in that car, I just couldn't care how fast it is.

If it's a Muscle Car or a Fiero then I like it. If it's any other type of car, then it's a rental car.

You asked if you should be demanding proof in HP claims. This is really a 2 part answer.

This is going to take a few minutes to read but I know you'll understand the older generation a lot better if you read it.

part 1....I grew up in the '60's, everybody I knew had a hot car then. There wasn't as much variety as there is now. A BMW had a 2 cylinder engine, anything British had Lucus electronics. (You know why Britians drink warm beer don't you? They have Lucas refrigerators. <~~~~ that's a joke for the old times) Most everybody I knew had a Muscle car from the big 3. There weren't chassis dynos around & very few engine dynos. If you wanted an engine in your car that wasn't stock you had to build it or have a local rebuilder build it for you. If you had a 396/375 Chevelle (396ci/375hp for you youngsters) & you put such & such cam in it then it would make 400 horse or whatever. Everybody knew that because local engine shops didn't have dynos but they bought their parts all from the same major suppliers. Because engine Dynos were way too expensive for the local rebuilders to have, the manufacturers would test every performance part they made in every engine that part was made to fit. These manufacturers made charts up so local engine builders knew how much HP each part would make in each engine it was made to fit. Let's say you were wanting your engine builder to build a 400hp 327ci SBC. He'd pull out a chart that would tell him exactly what cam, pistons, rods, heads & everything else it would take to build that engine. Then they'd build it.

part 2.... In my day, you took a man at his word. You wouldn't call him a liar unless you could prove it & you had to look him in the eye when you told him he was a liar. He didn't have to prove to you that he wasn't lying, you had to provide the proof. Now days people lie all the time, young people are raised to understand that they have to lie to survive & that everybody does it. When I was young, it was a major insult to be called a liar. If you heard someone call call someone a liar, you were about to witness a fight. If you didn't believe someone's HP claims, you either smiled & nodded & walked away or you challenged him to a race. The races were always for money & sometimes for Titles (or Pinks) If you didn't want the car he was driving, you always made sure it was for money. If he accepted your challenge & then you backed out, you'd get laughed right out of school or off the street.

So, to answer your question should you be demanding proof in HP claims. I don't think you should be demanding. You can't demand things from people you don't know, in my day that would be the best way to get your butt kicked. Now days you think it's ok because you don't have to do it face to face. I think it would be fine to ask in a respectful way. No need to be blasting away at them right away, you could give him the benifit of the doubt until he's had a chance to give enough details that you can prove he's lying.

The burden of proof is on the accuser not the accused.

Archie



Aright, and that's fine. I can see where you're coming from, I respect your view and decisions that you make based on that view. Although I would have to still maintain that some sort of proof is a nice way to avoid discrepancies between claimed Horsepower numbers a person post on the internet and the actual numbers the car runs.

This day and age I had my Co-Worker's Friend tell me that his Bone stock, 200hp, 3400lb Nissan Skyline GTS-T runs 12's in the 1/4 mile and will destroy my Cobalt SS Supercharged. The first question I asked myself is if my Cobalt has less weight, and has more power, and I know it's only good for High 13's to mid 14's (haha I can't drive) wouldn't he be slower than my car?

I say that the burden of proof is in the Numbers. If I can't find "C" by A over B, then some thing's not right. Maybe though like you said, to keep things calm around here give someone the benefit of the doubt. I'm sure most can handle that.


Formula88 MAR 16, 02:32 PM
I don't get the "old tech" vs "new tech" argument against SBC swaps. If you're so hyped on new tech you think a V8 is absurd, why are you modding a 20+ year old car?
Go buy a late model Honda, Nissan, or Mitsubishi. Or go buy a Cobalt or Ion and go all out with your high tech buildups.

This thread has gone the way of every V8 bashing thread. It's just about finding ways to insult people who disagree with you.
The post was originally about haters following Archie and other V8 owners around bashing them at every opportunity. I don't care what type of engine you prefer, that's just wrong. A person should be able to build their car the way they want without having someone stalk them because they don't like it.
Leafy MAR 16, 02:34 PM

quote
Originally posted by DrCPU:


If you're going to quote Leafy use his exact words - not your interpretation. He did not say "dated" he said "stone age". There is a huge difference in intent when you elect to use those words.




When I said stone age engine, the actual connotation was dated engine. I like wordplay. It means when I read it back to myself after I type it, I don't get bored right away.