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| Jebb? Is that you? (Page 2/17) |
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84Bill
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JUN 10, 06:34 PM
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| quote | | Originally posted by Steve Normington: 2) It is not forced labor. It is quid pro quo (this for that). You get assistance from the government and you work for a community project. You can opt out simply by not accepting foodstamps and then you won't have to work on habitat for humanity. 3) Society is helping you by providing food stamps. This law says that you have to return some of that help.
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Yes it is. I paid taxes for the last 23 years. So exactly what am I getting when I pay them? A 1,000 dollar toilet seat? Maybe free magazine subscriptions for the entire congress? What???
| quote | Originally posted by Steve Normington: There is no $165,000 going to anybody. That money would only exist if the house was sold to a non-needy family that took out a mortgage. The needy family is either paying a reduced amount (like $10,000) or nothing. If they pay a reduced amount, that would probably be used to pay off some of the costs associated with this program. If you really want to find out what is going on, use the Freedom of Information act to find the governmental records associated with HFH. |
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Who provided the materials? How much did it cost and if it were donated who benefits from the (peoples) government tax writeoffs and passes the losses off onto the American public? Looks to me as though you are volunteering help for the needy by paying more and getting less at Ace and Home Depot.. I could be wrong but I believe the corporate sponsors "use" this as a public relations ploy... see how nice we are? Please come to our store and pay higher prices so we have to send our work overseas for cheap labor.. I almost feel like an unwitting pawn in the corporate stealing of the american dream... Please sign here and we will sell it to you on credit. we are nothing but ground hamburgar meat for the cronies to have their thousand dollar burgar at the expense of working america. [This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 06-10-2004).]
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G-Nasty
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JUN 10, 06:46 PM
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In Texas after any unemployment compensation runs out (it is a very small amount) which is usually within a 6 month period, the state of Texas offers nothing else. This is especially true if you do not have children. Welfare stamps and Lonstar cards are only given to mothers taking care of children that have little or no income. No other relief or emergency monies are offered to single male adults. I remember going to a Slayer concert and seeing hordes of unemployed homeless people roaming and sleeping within the city streets. I am angry at our govts failure to address this issue. I've seen the money the U.S. throws around. It goes everywhere except where it should be going. OUT>
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Steve Normington
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JUN 10, 07:04 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by 84Bill: Yes it is. I paid taxes for the last 23 years. So exactly what am I getting when I pay them? A 1,000 dollar toilet seat? Maybe free magazine subscriptions for the entire congress? What???
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You got a international highway system, national system of libraries full of books, publically funded colleges, national parks, museums, disaster relief, public schools, disability insurance, local roads and sidewalks, space exploration, cell phone technology, and many other things.
| quote | Who provided the materials? How much did it cost and if it were donated who benefits from the (peoples) government tax writeoffs and passes the losses off onto the American public?Looks to me as though you are volunteering help for the needy by paying more and getting less at Ace and Home Depot.. I could be wrong but I believe the corporate sponsors "use" this as a public relations ploy... see how nice we are? Please come to our store and pay higher prices so we have to send our work overseas for cheap labor.. |
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I don't know. I assume the business that donate materials use that as a tax write off. The labor involved (which is most of a house) is probably donated by civic-minded individuals, welfare recipiants, and community groups. So the government gives back $10,000 in taxes and delivers a home worth $50,000. So a needy family gets a $50,000 house. Since you seem to think that is a bad thing, lets look at some alternatives. A) The government takes that $10,000 in tax from Home Depot and gives it directly to the needy family. They use that money to buy a $10,000 house which is old and has been neglected. The civic-minded individuals, welfare recipiants, and community groups do nothing. B) The government reduces Home Depot's taxes by $10,000. The owner donates that money to the needy family and they buy the $10,000 house above. The civic-minded individuals, welfare recipiants, and community groups do nothing. C) The owner of Home Depot uses the $10,000 to buy a big screen TV. Which way is the family better off? With a new $50,000 house that cost the government $10,000 or with a $10,000 house that cost the government $10,000 or watching a big screen TV from the bushes outside? Since you are benefiting from a program (food stamps) that takes tax money and gives it to needy people, I would think you would be in favour of giving a house to needy people but I may be wrong. You are probably right about the stores using this program to bring in sales. People like to think that some of their money is going to a worthy cause. Is that wrong? Should the stores do it quietly? Or not do it at all? As far as sending the work overseas, I don't think that is likely to be caused by just the donations since by your previous statement they get tax breaks from donating materials. [OT] One thing I want to know, what exactly do you want? I assume you want the same job you had before at the same pay. If so, how do you propose that happen? If your job was send overseas, does the US pass a law that all labor for US companies be paid in the US? If so, how do you prevent companies outside the US from selling products in the US? Do we exclude all imports? Or do we require that companies that import into the US pay their employees the same as a US employee? What if they make some products for US consumption and some for domestic consumption? Do the employees get paid US wages for a percentage of the time (based on the percentage of US vs total goods)? If so, how do we check to make sure the company is not stretching the truth? If the employees get paid the same wage for all goods, the cost for the domestic goods will shoot way up. Do we demand that all employees in the entire country get paid a US wage regardless of whether the export to the US so that they can now afford the goods that the previous company makes? If so, how do we enforce that? What if you were laid off? Do we prevent companies from laying off people? If so, what does the company do when they need to reduce expenses? Do they just have everyone work 20 hours a week? What happens if a company goes out of business? Do you continue at your previous salary until you find another job? What happens if you don't look for a job? Do you not want a job at all? In a previous thread, you had said that going to work would be hastening the end (or something like that). Do you want to get rid of this system of government? If so, what do you propose replacing it with?
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loafer87gt
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JUN 10, 07:09 PM
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Getting a bit defensive, are we? I mention lazy able bodied individuals who refuse to work and you automatically think the comments are directly towards you. OK, I'll bite 1. Now I will go and put my time into this because I feel it is a good cause BUT the luster and gratification has been stolen from me and that quite frankly it angers me; I will not benefit personally from performing such an activity.
My question is who does? YOU are the benefactor. The food stamps and living allowance provided to you by welfare are payment for your labour. 2. So how much does it cost to build the house that the government will buy at cost and give to a needy person? How much to carpenters, sheet rockers, electricians or plumbers get per hour to perform 20 hrs a month for their services? If it is all vollunteer work who really gets the 165,000 dollars total that would normally go to a builder and the contractors for this house? Along the same lines as 1. The $165,000 is forfeited because those doing the labour have chosen to live off of government assistance instead. The only cost to government is the relatively miniscule cost of the building supplies. 3. Lastly, where does that money go? I sure as hell didn't get any of it and neither did any of the other "volunteers". Same answer again. You received payment in the form of welfare assistance. If you want to receive a paycheck for your work efforts get a job and pay your taxes like the rest of the population does. 4. Is that dachshund I smell cooking or am I not even in the ball park? What is your solution then? One minute you are Bush bashing and cursing capitalism, and now your are damning socialism because now you are expected to work for your foodstamps - a system where everyone is expected to be on level ground on the premise that they contribute in some way or another to the betterment of the country. What are you expecting, a big screen tv or a new house for sitting around doing nothing? If you don't like your current economic situation, do something about! Move, try and start a new career, do anything! You seem like a smart enough guy, I just can't see what is holding you back and causing you to wallow in your self pity. It is going to accomplish nothing but continually bring you down.
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84Bill
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JUN 10, 07:09 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by JRM-2M6:
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Well ya don't have to agree but it's nice to see that you do. Thanks for the + input.
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84Bill
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JUN 10, 07:41 PM
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| quote | | Originally posted by loafer87gt: Getting a bit defensive, are we? I mention lazy able bodied individuals who refuse to work and you automatically think the comments are directly towards you. OK, I'll bite |
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Well yes I am, I'm not a bum, bogar, leach or a drain to society in general. I am a highly skilled computer tech with many years of experience who is having a hard time getting "suitable work". It's not "my" fault I can't seem to get a job in my field other than a few outsourced contracts that are not sufficient for me to live on.
| quote | Originally posted by loafer87gt: 1. Now I will go and put my time into this because I feel it is a good cause BUT the luster and gratification has been stolen from me and that quite frankly it angers me; I will not benefit personally from performing such an activity.My question is who does? YOU are the benefactor. The food stamps and living allowance provided to you by welfare are payment for your labour.
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See my reply to Steve's post
| quote | Originally posted by loafer87gt: 4. Is that dachshund I smell cooking or am I not even in the ball park?What is your solution then?
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I duno, lets ask our President, Congressmen and Representives. I / "we" don't get paid enough or get anything for free but they do so ask them where they get all that free stuff and money because I / "we" want some too. As American we should demand better srvice for our money.
| quote | Originally posted by loafer87gt: One minute you are Bush bashing and cursing capitalism, and now your are damning socialism because now you are expected to work for your foodstamps - a system where everyone is expected to be on level ground on the premise that they contribute in some way or another to the betterment of the country.
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We are supposed to all be on level ground, especially our government. They are sitting so pretty way high up in the stratusphere that they have no idea what the hell is going on down here on main street.I seriously question their ability to "run" America because all I see out the windshild is dirt!
| quote | Originally posted by loafer87gt: What are you expecting, a big screen tv or a new house for sitting around doing nothing? If you don't like your current economic situation, do something about! Move, try and start a new career, do anything! You seem like a smart enough guy, I just can't see what is holding you back and causing you to wallow in your self pity. It is going to accomplish nothing but continually bring you down.
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 Please stop making assumptions about me. All I want is a job and a small home where I can live and do the things I like. I'm willing to pay for it and work for it but I don't want to have to "sign on the dotted line" for it. I don't want anyone looking over my shoulder waiting to pounce on me and sieze all I have worked for and leave us with nothing. Sure we can hock ourselves into the ground again and again, they would be all to happy to sell another dream and reduce it to dollars leaving us once again in the gutter only to be kicked like a heap of trash by our so called American brothers. Behold the new land of the free and home of the brave. It has no heart and no soul left because it was sold to the highest bidder who then kicks the crap out of those who can't make the mortgage payments. Controlled and regulated out of existance and enforced with by brainwashed cronies who live like kings feed it in mass to their loyal subjects. There is no loyalty in corporate America and we are all part of it! Damnit man this is what we are "living" and we are leaving it much worse for our kids! [This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 06-10-2004).]
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84Bill
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JUN 10, 08:07 PM
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| quote | | Originally posted by Steve Normington: You got a international highway system, national system of libraries full of books, publically funded colleges, national parks, museums, disaster relief, public schools, disability insurance, local roads and sidewalks, space exploration, cell phone technology, and many other things. |
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Sorry, I have to keep it pithy International highway system? Highway system: is paid fully by the gasoline tax. It's called "roads and bridges tax" Librarys: are supposed to be funded for the community BY the community, most are paid for by local taxes. publically funded colleges: Show me one, I want to sign up.. oh wait I'm a bum so I don't qualify as an American citizen. mainly funded by grants from the government, corporate and private donations. national parks: are funded by the government, how much do 100,000 park rangers make? (Just grabbing a number out of my ares)  museums: Are a private institution paid for mainly through donations and enterence fees. I don't see how this applies. disaster relief: You mean insurance?.. it's a private business. If you don't have insurance .. ya loose, sorry. disability insurance: it's a private business. If you don't have insurance .. ya loose, sorry. public schools: are funded by local municipalities not the federal government. Property tax. local roads and sidewalks: Local municipalities.. Property taxes.. again. space exploration, cell phone technology, and many other things.: A business called NASA and if I'm not mistaken they are not making any money by keeping the shuttle grounded.. Money better spent in the Iraq war I suppose? What about the social progran called "welfare"? How about the part of the constitution that says the government MUST provide for the "welfare" of it's citizens? Citizens such as myself who are qualified, willing and able to work but are having a hard time finding work because the very government that is supposed to help has in it's infinate wisdom created this very problem! [This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 06-10-2004).]
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avengador1
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JUN 10, 10:51 PM
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Don't you have to sign up for a waiting list to get one of those habitat houses? Have you signed up if you want one? You already are doing the work of building them, isn't that part of qualifying to get one of them too? Do you know exactly what you need to qualify for one of those houses and do you qualify? As to the value of those houses, it would depend on their location, lot size, and description of the property in question compared to similar houses in the area. The houses will have some value, but will be given away or sold way under their fair market value. I guess once you own it you couls sell it for a profit, but Im wiling to bet that they have some sort of agreement you will have to sign about when you can actually sell it.
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84Bill
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JUN 11, 12:54 AM
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| quote | | Originally posted by avengador1: Don't you have to sign up for a waiting list to get one of those habitat houses? Have you signed up if you want one? You already are doing the work of building them, isn't that part of qualifying to get one of them too? Do you know exactly what you need to qualify for one of those houses and do you qualify? As to the value of those houses, it would depend on their location, lot size, and description of the property in question compared to similar houses in the area. The houses will have some value, but will be given away or sold way under their fair market value. I guess once you own it you couls sell it for a profit, but Im wiling to bet that they have some sort of agreement you will have to sign about when you can actually sell it. |
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Good questions I personally don't want one, I wouldn't mind building one to help pass the time though. It does give new meaning to civic duty though and I will admit had I not been forced into doing it I may have never considered it. In addition to the message in my first post.. And something I saw BigBoysToys say in another thread got me thinking.
| quote | Originally posted by BigBoyToys: this place (TO/T) has become more and more about the poor unfortunate me....me....me....
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Anyone want to join me in swinging a hammer to help people?
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AusFiero
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JUN 11, 09:13 AM
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| quote | | Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: Oh cripes. Aren't there more suitable forums for this? |
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We could only pray. Then again scrap that thought. That will just start a new religious argument. ------------------
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