END OF KIT CARS? (Page 19/60)
Archie DEC 21, 11:13 AM

quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:


IIRC your stunning Fiero aleady has 760 HP.




Bloozberry DEC 21, 11:17 AM
As one of the few people Madcurl seems to respect, thank you Archie for chiming in.


quote
Originally posted by madcurl:
You must work for Fauxnews...



I sincerely hope that your use of this expression was not purposely aimed at my French Canadian heritage, otherwise this argument has taken a serious detour.
madcurl DEC 21, 11:37 AM

quote
Originally posted by Archie:

That's what you are doing, you condem all Replicas or kitcars because some have been poorly designed or poorly built.

A



Poorly designed from the standpoint of looking at them 25 feet away. There are many replica kits that are nearly identical as the original (from an outward appearance as seen by the ones I posted).

Are we to conclude that because of (a) kit that is greatly off the mark is considered a great looking kit? Or are we to conclude that all kits regardless of how poorly the outward appearance maybe is still-a great job well done?
TXGOOD DEC 21, 11:42 AM
Curly, I don`t really get into too many of these discussions but I think the point had been missed.
I think, as far as my standpoint has been on this subject, it`s not about building an exact replica.
It`s about building something that represents a supercar.
The Diablo I would like to build comes nowhere near the figures posted in your quote.
You use Corvette tailights
A Honda Accord windshield or a replica windshield from AGP glass that is I think about 450.00
Side windows from AGP that last time I checked were about 150.00 each.
Side mirror shells come with the body kit or use Eclipse mirrors.
Seats from a Fiero with a modified headrest.
Interior trim items are more at probably 2000.00
Vision 240 mph speedometer with a Lambo overlay and an electronic calibrator. About 500.00
For original grilles, that`s probably about right, unless you fabricate yourself.
Fiero84Freak DEC 21, 11:47 AM
Archie has the right idea, and honestly Archie you have constructed what I believe to be one of the definitive examples of this concept you have laid out - the Miura replica you built a while back.

Indeed, I have to say if there has been anything that I have been utterly impressed by that has came out of your shop it is that Miura "replica." That car was quite worthy of being a very good "demo" car to show what can be done with a properly built replica. If anything, I would also say it is a rather good example of a completely custom "Fiero" at the height of the customization spectrum.

There are some things to point out though. Indeed, it's base is a Pontiac Fiero. Does that make it bad? Of course not. I also understand, as was pointed out towards the end of the build thread, there are some minor variances on the outside that do not make it exactly the same as a Miura. Does that make it a bad car? Absolutely not. It's going to fool a tremendous amount of individuals - likely even Lambo enthusiasts that know what a Miura is. If you park it next to a real one will you see minor differences? Probably. What is the chance of that happening? Likely miniscule.

However, based on the current argument presented by the thread, it is a replica that is attempting to replicate the actual car and thus should be near exact to be deemed "correct." The car has proved though that this does not have to be the case when constructing a replica, be it based on a Fiero or otherwise.

Liberties can be taken for the sake of constructability to have a driveable car. The argument then becomes where do you draw the line on what liberties can be taken. I remember reading an article in "Kit Car" back in the late 90's that said one of the great things about a Lambo replica is it doesn't matter if you "put 100 spoke gold rims on your car, because in the end it's your car." I like to approach kit cars and replicas the same way. There is for sure a line that can be drawn as to what liberties can be taken, but you shouldn't let this line influence a great deal as to the poor or good qualities of a kit/replica build.


quote
Originally posted by Bloozberry:
I sincerely hope that your use of this expression was not purposely aimed at my French Canadian heritage, otherwise this argument has taken a serious detour.



I don't think so Blooz. People often refer to FOX News as "FauxNews," but that would be getting into a political debate that has nothing to do with cars so let's stay away from that argument and speak on the topic at hand.
madcurl DEC 21, 12:16 PM

quote
Originally posted by steve308:

I’m interested in how you feel about Archies Miura build or his GT40t projects. Do they measure up to the great chop top work he does or are they of lesser value because they are based on the spirit of a production vehicle? PS wish my "chicken wire" looked that good!



My comments are clearly presented on the "Miura" thread. That said, IMHO the Miura build is perhaps the best built kits ever made. The quality is second to none and is demonstrated throughout the build. In fact the Muira build is better than the original Muira built by Lamborghini. In this case, the replica wins hands down in:

1. Suspension.
2. Engine/trans.
3. Insurance.
4. Interior, and last but not least
5. Use of a Fiero as a base to build the car.

When you factor in the cost of the real McCoy, limited production, and it's inherited problems, obviously the kit wins all around. The real Miura isn't practical to drive except to trailer the car to Pebble Beach and to gloat to others with unlimited funds. If I had the car I would gladly drive the the Concord D Elegance, park it and wait for hob-nobs to show up and then say, "Hello, now get out my way. I'm headed to AutoZone for a k&n air filter,"- hehe.



As for the GT40 I've only been in 1-completed kit and it was a nice kit and it wasn't poorly built.
Bloozberry DEC 21, 05:20 PM

quote
Originally posted by madcurl:
Are we to conclude that because of (a) kit that is greatly off the mark is considered a great looking kit? Or are we to conclude that all kits regardless of how poorly the outward appearance maybe is still-a great job well done?



I defy you to quote anybody on this thread who subscribes to this fabricated point of view.

The issue being debated here is your view that you must act as some spokesperson for all that is tasteful, authentic, creative, or intelligent within your own narrow definition of these subjective topics, and denounce all that isn't. Tell me, is a fake engine cover hiding a 2.8L engine any less intelligent than trying to fool people by hiding a Chevette/Citation suspension behind 20" wheels? Does a car that shares the windshield and tail lights as the only visible parts of a stock Fiero deserve to be badged a Fiero? Because you say so?

Edited for clarity.

[This message has been edited by Bloozberry (edited 12-21-2011).]

ferrobi DEC 21, 05:34 PM
Curly's always right no matter what you say he will twist it to seem like he is in the right - so I'm sure he will chime in any second or wait a few days and post why he is the right one. This will just go on and on and on and on and on.
steve308 DEC 21, 06:58 PM

quote
Originally posted by madcurl:


My comments are clearly presented on the "Miura" thread. That said, IMHO the Miura build is perhaps the best built kits ever made. The quality is second to none and is demonstrated throughout the build. In fact the Muira build is better than the original Muira built by Lamborghini. In this case, the replica wins hands down in:

1. Suspension.
2. Engine/trans.
3. Insurance.
4. Interior, and last but not least
5. Use of a Fiero as a base to build the car.

When you factor in the cost of the real McCoy, limited production, and it's inherited problems, obviously the kit wins all around. The real Miura isn't practical to drive except to trailer the car to Pebble Beach and to gloat to others with unlimited funds. If I had the car I would gladly drive the the Concord D Elegance, park it and wait for hob-nobs to show up and then say, "Hello, now get out my way. I'm headed to AutoZone for a k&n air filter,"- hehe.



As for the GT40 I've only been in 1-completed kit and it was a nice kit and it wasn't poorly built.



To Quote Jim Carey in Dumb and Dumber " So you're saying there's a chance"

[This message has been edited by steve308 (edited 12-21-2011).]

madcurl DEC 21, 07:37 PM

quote
Originally posted by ferrobi:

Curly's always right no matter what you say he will twist it to seem like he is in the right - so I'm sure he will chime in any second or wait a few days and post why he is the right one. This will just go on and on and on and on and on.



Unlike you I have more important things to do.


quote
Originally posted by madcurl:

During the past couple of days I found out that a beloved friend of mine past away in the choptop community. I'm going by Bakersfield, CA. today and I'm not really feeling good about my visit. I will tell you more about it today with their permission to post and mention the name here.

Death is surly our enemy.