The economy, is it good or bad. (Page 170/181)
84fiero123 JAN 16, 09:23 PM
Just sit back and watch. We will see who was right.

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Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

84Bill JAN 16, 09:26 PM

quote
Originally posted by 84fiero123:

Just sit back and watch. We will see who was right.




Hell man, I've been watching since before 07-27-2007 10:05 AM.

84Bill JAN 17, 07:52 AM
Credit crunch hits $3B casino project
Developer Bruce Eichner's Cosmopolitan casino project faces foreclosure in Las Vegas

LAS VEGAS (AP) -- Nevada's foreclosure crisis claimed a high-profile victim on Wednesday, as investment bank Deutsche Bank took the first step toward foreclosing on the $3 billion Cosmopolitan Resort & Casino project.

Developer and owner Ian Bruce Eichner said his company, 3700 Associates LLC, was working with Deutsche Bank and Merrill Lynch to find new investors. The construction loan from Deutsche Bank of $760 million went into default Wednesday, the company said.
ditch JAN 17, 08:20 AM

quote
Originally posted by 84Bill:
feel the proper course of action would be to forgive the loan 100% or at the very least set them back where they were prior to the sale of a bad bill of goods. Not all those who took those loans did so becasue they had bad or no credit but because someone said "Trust me" this ARM is a GREAT deal..... right now.

The solution is defiantly not to hand the criminals who were the ultimate cause of this problem more money ESPECIALLY the peoples money.

In order to re kindle the economy and restore vigor faith in the economy as well as the slimy banks, the best solution would be to write off the bad loans on the individual level and not let the banks "write them down" as quarterly profit losses... Thats just insane because the bank writes off the loss but the people still owe the full amount of the loan.

The banks will still hound the people for the money they "paid" for a product that isnt worth the price they people got the loan for. Theres nothing to back it up and about the only recourse available is bankruptcy... automatic 7 year hitch. Thats if they even qualify for chapter 7... I have no doubt the changes in the bankruptcy laws were no accident either. It's an all to convent coincidence.. and who were the primary lobbyist for the changes? Y it was the banks... who else?

If the fed is going to hand out billions in cash it would make sense to give it to the PEOPLE who really need it to clear their debts who will then spend it in the market place, pay off those debts and keep the economic fire alight.




Forgiving the loan won't help. Sure it will get the buyers out of it, but then the banks will own all of those houses. It would be the same thing to the banks as if all were foreclosed on. Sure the banks should suffer from this, but do that and what is happening now in the economy will look like disneyland compared to where it will go. More depressed, bank owned properties is not the answer.

The banks may write down the losses, but they're still on the hook for either the mortgage or the house, whichever they can collect. They still own the contract with the seller and either have to collect the money or get stuck with the house. A write-off is not magically putting all the money they lost back into their pockets.

The FED handing out the $$$ to the people is just as bad as it giving it to the banks. Handing money to people with poor credit is like putting it in a fire. They have a poor credit standing for a reason, and not everyone is a victim. Sure there are some people with good credit who went with ARM's, but the majority of them did not have good credit. The banks used the ARM to tap into the crowd with less than good credit. They did, and they got assraped bigtime. Stock prices plummeted and the shareholders are feeling the hurt.

For those who have already lost their homes, yeah I wouldn't mind seeing them get some help to get their credit back in order sooner. It would do the economy good in the long run. For the millions who still have ARM's, I say we refinance them into fixed rate loans so they are more likely to keep their home. If we don't do that, the trend we're seeing will continue for the next 2+ years.
ditch JAN 17, 08:22 AM

quote
Originally posted by 84fiero123:

Just sit back and watch. We will see who was right.




is that all you care about, or are you interrested in contributing something useful?

I'm still waiting on a reply from the following, althought I don't expect I will get one:



quote
Originally posted by 84fiero123:
What about those who invested their retirement funds in these banks that said yes we are in fine shape and the next day posted 46% losses?



so now it's the banks themselves that said everything is ok, buy our stock? I thought we were hanging the advisors/brokers today?

and who moved their entire retirement portfolio into one of the big banks and lost 46%? any links to that? Only a fool would move their entire retirement fund into a small group of stocks. Enron is a perfect example of why people should be diversified.

Also, most people can and do move their retirement funds around themselves, it's all electronic and very easy to do anymore. So when they move it and lose who do we blame?

[This message has been edited by ditch (edited 01-17-2008).]

84Bill JAN 17, 08:27 AM

quote
Originally posted by ditch:
Sure there are some people with good credit who went with ARM's, but the majority of them did not have good credit. The banks used the ARM to tap into the crowd with less than good credit. They did, and they got assraped bigtime.



You just spelled Anti Trust

The banks have the (worth less) product they tried to pawn off onto the masses so they should eat the losses, declare bankruptcy and move to another country. The government should enact laws preventing loan sharking and try to recoup the losses from the criminal institutions and the criminals (CEO's) who came up with the scam should be incarcerated for life.

The banks played a crooked ball game. The give higher interest rates to people who can ill afford a loan and give lower rates to people with fist fulls of cash. Again, thats not risk management, thats stacking the deck against the public... So the banks lose and now the entire U.S. Population has to foot the bill.

[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 01-17-2008).]

ditch JAN 17, 08:44 AM

quote
Originally posted by 84Bill:


You just spelled Anti Trust



Did I? Says who? Just how deceptive they were, if at all, is debatable. For my recent house purchase, I like everyone else who gets a mortgage was given a good faith estimate and the attached paperwork. I was able to take it home and READ it so I would understand the terms and conditions. THey actually aren't all that complicated. There are plenty of mortgage calculators online that will help you estimate your monthly payment increase from a corresponding interrest rate increase.

Again, the amount responsibility the banks hold in the ARM issue is debatable. Consumers are not mindless drones. They need to take some of the responsibility in this as well.

The same game is played out in the credit card world, higher interrest rates for those of higher risk. At a glance, I will admit that it doesn't make much sense.

[This message has been edited by ditch (edited 01-17-2008).]

84Bill JAN 17, 08:47 AM

Stanley O'Neal
Payback is a *****
In August and September, as his company is racking up the largest quarterly loss in its 93-year history, Merrill Lynch CEO Stanley O'Neal squeezes in 20 rounds of golf, including three rounds on three different courses in a single day. In October, O'Neal announces his "retirement," walking away with a compensation package valued at $161.5 million.


Merrill reports $10 billion loss
Nation's largest brokerage also takes $14.6 billion in writedowns on subprime mortgages and hedges gone bad.

EW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Merrill Lynch & Co. reported a quarterly operating loss of more than $10 billion Thursday that was much worse than expected, while it announced an $11.5 billion writedown related to the subprime crisis.

Merrill (MER, Fortune 500) shares lost more than 4 percent in pre-market trading on the news.

For the quarter, Merrill posted a loss from continuing operations of $10.3 billion, or $12.57 a share.

On a net basis, the company reported a loss of $9.91 billion, or $12.01 a share.

In the year-earlier period, Merrill reported a net profit of $2.3 billion, or $2.41 a share.

The results were far worse than anticipated. Merrill was expected to report a loss of $4.57 a share on revenue of $702.1 million, according to analysts polled by earnings tracker Thomson Financial.

Merrill, the nation's largest brokerage, also said it would writedown $11.5 billion on its collateralized debt obligations and subprime residential mortgages. The company also reported a $3.1 billion writedown on hedges with financial guarantors.

Prior to Merrill's announcement, there had been intense speculation that the company could write down as much as $15 billion during the quarter.

For the year, Merrill recorded an operating loss of $8.05 billion or $10.73 a share.
84Bill JAN 17, 09:00 AM

quote
Originally posted by ditch:
Just how deceptive they were, if at all, is debatable.



Convince me the banks didn't alter their lending practices to include people with less than stellar credit.

The banks knew what they were doing when they lowered their lending standards, the brokers knew they were selling a loan that was sub standard and they sold them like candy to the public without "clearly" warning them of the dangers of having such a loan & lastly the banks APPROVED them so they had willful knowledge of how many people were going to be affected. It's not like they cant track this, it's not like they didn't know.

The banking "industry" also lobbied for legislation aimed at altering the bankruptcy laws to ensnare those victims they knew were going to fail.

IOW
It was a scam designed to "take advantage" of the American people.

They tricked the public into taking ARM knowing full well the deck was stacked in their favor. Judging by the magnitude of the problem and multitude of people affected, I'd have to say the burden of guilt and responsibility rests squarely on the shoulders of the people who had the final say in the APPROVAL of those loans.

Thats what a scam is, it takes advantage of the "trust" of the victim.

scam /skæm/
Pronunciation noun, verb, scammed, scam·ming.
–noun
1. a confidence game or other fraudulent scheme, esp. for making a quick profit; swindle.
–verb (used with object)
2. to cheat or defraud with a scam

[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 01-17-2008).]

84Bill JAN 17, 09:28 AM
More wind off the economic sails... How many electricians, plumbers, cabinet makers, sheet rockers, roofers, tile layers, land scapers, designers, refrigerator & furniture manufacturers, are out of work now?

Housing starts and permits plummet
Builders slam on brakes, dropping pace of new building to levels not seen since 1991 recession.

[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 01-17-2008).]