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| The economy, is it good or bad. (Page 168/181) |
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ditch
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JAN 16, 02:31 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by 84fiero123:
And just how long do you think it will take these people who bought these stocks in the banks to recover their losses?
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I thought we were discussing where to lay blame, not the recovery part. Of course, I don't mind giving an opinion on that too, but lets finish the part about who is to blame first:
| quote | Originally posted by 84fiero123:
What about those who invested their retirement funds in these banks that said yes we are in fine shape and the next day posted 46% losses? |
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so now it's the banks themselves that said everything is ok, buy our stock? I thought we were hanging the advisors/brokers today?
and who moved their entire retirement portfolio into one of the big banks and lost 46%? any links to that? Only a fool would move their entire retirement fund into a small group of stocks. Enron is a perfect example of why people should be diversified.
Also, most people can and do move their retirement funds around themselves, it's all electronic and very easy to do anymore. So when they move it and lose who do we blame?[This message has been edited by ditch (edited 01-16-2008).]
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84Bill
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JAN 16, 02:49 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by ditch:
Only a fool would move their entire retirement fund into a small group of stocks.
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Only a fool would buy into an ARM mortgage too but millions of people did and now look at what has happened.
While the mortgage scandal appears to be the work of greedy underhanded salesmen just trying to punch out mortgages, I hold the banks and their lending "practices" responsible for creating a better mouse trap then killing us all by "knocking" off too much dead weight later on. I believe the banks were blind sided by the energy price increases and didn't factor into their ARM "scam" anything other than normal inflationary "growth."
Almost 4 months and a few trillion dollars later they are realizing the error in their ways. This is why I personally don't trust banks with so much as a penny of my hard earned cash.
Interestingly enough I have not heard word one that the banks could be guilty of anti-trust by lowering their lending standards or creating traps they knew had an elevated risk of failure the further down the economic scale you go.
Seems a one sided ball game when you give a higher interest rate or an elevated rate that is adjustable (will only go up and not down) to the guy who can already ill afford it and a lower one to the guy who has a back pack full of WAM. Thats not what I would consider "risk management" as it is more akin to "disaster recipe."[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 01-16-2008).]
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84Bill
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JAN 16, 03:55 PM
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ditch
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JAN 16, 04:24 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by 84Bill:
Only a fool would buy into an ARM mortgage too but millions of people did and now look at what has happened.
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I put the blame evenly on both the banks and homeowners concernning the ARM issue. As far as who is to blame for investors losing money in the market, that one is harder to dissect. I think everyone has made their opinion known on who they want to blame for the issues were facing, ARM, banks, etc. So where do we go from here?
I'm far from an economist, it isn't even remotely my specialty, but I wouldn't mind discussing that...Where do we go from here? I just got home and need to get situated. Need a cold beer, have to cook some food, need to unwind my mind. I'll be back to give my thoughts (if I can come up with any) after that[This message has been edited by ditch (edited 01-16-2008).]
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Red88FF
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JAN 16, 04:28 PM
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Blame? we did this already, A few pages back.
Clinton administration, almost all the republicans, and Greenspan Sorry but the banks were following the new laws that "they" made. Before the change the saving and loans were not allowed to have holdings in the stock market, which caused more problems when the loan failure rate went up. But we cannot forget the F'ing stupid people that bought arm loans leading the pack.
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84Bill
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JAN 16, 04:36 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by ditch:
I put the blame evenly on both the banks and homeowners concernning the ARM issue.
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Might as well blame hungry people for eating food then. Food, clothing and shelter are the basic necessities of life so if a bank can rustle up some scheme to take advantage of peoples needs to get out of the elements and grab a slice of the American dream called home, then the degradation of trust between the banks, government and people has degraded significantly.
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As far as who is to blame for investors losing money in the market, that one is harder to dissect. I think everyone has made their opinion known on who they want to blame for the issues were facing, ARM, banks, etc. So where do we go from here?
I'm far from an economist, it isn't even remotely my specialty, but I wouldn't mind discussing that...Where do we go from here? I just got home and need to get situated. Need a cold beer, have to cook some food, need to unwind my mind. I'll be back to give my thoughts (if I can come up with any) after that
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Are you even interested to know that thousands of Americans are no longer enjoying that walk through the door of their home, enjoying a beer or two while they unwind because the banks and brokers sold them a bad bill of goods?
Where we go from here is directly proportional to your position on weather or not these banks and brokers should be held accountable for violating the trust of the American public..
These banks don't give a fuk.. When they need a few billion in money they just tap the Fed and out pours billions... The people are the ones who are paying for this bullcrap.. you, me, mr defaulted ARM mortgage, At&T, Time Warner...
The fed is handing out billions of our money to these scam artists and calling it a "bail out"
Fuk the banks.. make the banks pay.[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 01-16-2008).]
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Red88FF
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JAN 16, 04:43 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by 84Bill:
The fed is handing out billions of our money to these scam artists and calling it a "bail out"
Fuk the banks.. make the banks pay.
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Hmmmm, I guess you do not realize that those billions are in the form of loans and are made available at lower interest rates to make CASH available for US to borrow. Sorry but that is not handing out and the interest lock is also NOT a bailout. This is just one of the many reasons your position does not make the grade. It takes at least a basic understanding. Like growth.
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84Bill
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JAN 16, 04:55 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Red88FF:
Hmmmm, I guess you do not realize that those billions are in the form of loans and are made available at lower interest rates to make CASH available for US to borrow. Sorry but that is not handing out and the interest lock is also NOT a bailout. This is just one of the many reasons your position does not make the grade. It takes at least a basic understanding. Like growth. |
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Dont assume what I realize and what I don't.
When a mortgage broker says "trust me" with this loan you can get this house, THAT IS a violation of public trust when the loan falls through because the bank "crossed the line" and gave it. The bank APPROVED the loan so the bank should be made to eat the losses, not get a hand out to the tune of a few hundred billion in tax payers dollars.
The banks knew what they were doing when they relaxed their loan practices and handed out billions and billions of dollars in junk mortgages.
I could see it as not being an issue if this were an isolated case but the fact is MILLIONS of Americans were lead to believe this mortgage was the best thing since sliced bread and it appears that the banks were the ones who were responsible for scamming the American public on a wholesale level judging by the sheer magnitude of this crisis. Those on the street cant be helped at this point as their house is gone so there is no need for the banks to get these fed "loans" other than to maintain their bloated stock values.[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 01-16-2008).]
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ditch
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JAN 16, 05:24 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by 84Bill:
Are you even interested to know that thousands of Americans are no longer enjoying that walk through the door of their home, enjoying a beer or two while they unwind because the banks and brokers sold them a bad bill of goods?
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Get over yourself, of course I know that. It sounds like you think I don't give a rats ass...I do. So am I not allowed to enjoy what I have? I walked thru my door today because I understood the terms of my mortgage contract and knew it was within my means to repay it.
| quote | Originally posted by 84Bill:
Where we go from here is directly proportional to your position on weather or not these banks and brokers should be held accountable for violating the trust of the American public..
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I made my position clear, the blame does not rest with just one entity. Did banks do the wrong thing? Yes, and they should have to pay for some of that. Don't think for a minute that I like it when the fed pumps money their way, I don't. Did the home owners do the wrong thing? Yes, and many are paying for it by losing the homes they couldn't afford in the first place.
Where do we go? On the ARM issue: More strict lending standards, helping people who have ARM's and decent credit get into a fixed rate mortgage. Economy in general: Another interrest rate cut? Most likely will happen. Get CNN to report some good news (there is plenty of it out there) instead of trying to destroy consumer confidence with nothing but negatives. Peoples attitudes play a tremendous part in is.
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84Bill
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JAN 16, 05:47 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by ditch:
So am I not allowed to enjoy what I have? I walked thru my door today because I understood the terms of my mortgage contract and knew it was within my means to repay it.
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Never even said any of that at all... You implied it and I just brought it out into the open for discussion.
You me and everyone else needs to grapple with is the fact that our economy is in a state of shock because of bad lending practices. The people were given the option of taking a slice of the American dream by signing here or being denied it. The people wont deny themselves a house, only the bank can do that so when a bank says congratulations on the purchase of your new house, they SHOULD have a vested interest in making sure the product they sold is something slightly more reliable that a set of Mexican handcuffs.
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Yes, and many are paying for it by losing the homes they couldn't afford in the first place.
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No.. WE are paying for it because the banks APPROVED those loans which means the banks had the LAST SAY before giving out that loan.
Because the banks gave out so many junk loans to so many people when they shouldn't have and CAUSED the mortgage crisis we are now dealing with... and it's associate evils like a deflated dollar and out of control inflation...I'm sorry to say that this isnt something that you can lay blame on the people for doing.
The people just took an offer that the banks gave them. That offer was a baited offer and that bait was but is no longer called the American Dream for them. It was snatched out from under them like the cheap throw rug that it was to begin with.
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Where do we go? On the ARM issue: More strict lending standards, helping people who have ARM's and decent credit get into a fixed rate mortgage. Economy in general: Another interest rate cut? Most likely will happen. Get CNN to report some good news (there is plenty of it out there) instead of trying to destroy consumer confidence with nothing but negatives. Peoples attitudes play a tremendous part in is.
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If enough people already lost enough houses and those that remain are in bad shape then I don't care how many you convert to fixed rate mortgages because that wont solve the problem of a faltering economy due to mortgage crisis. Adding to it by devaluing the doller will only amplify the effects.
Those who lost their houses also lost their ability to buy on credit.. The wind comes off the economic sails...
Tightening up lending practices AFTER the fact isn't going to help as it will put others out of reach of obtaining more credit until the crisis is over.... Yet more wind coming off the economic sails...
Give the crooks more Fed money and cause the dollar to deflate means... Even more wind comes out of the economic sails...
It gets to the point where people cant buy during the biggest sales month of the year and EVEN MORE wind comes off the economic sails...
When only 17,000 jobs were created in the month of December?.... I dont even think I need to say it.[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 01-16-2008).]
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