The economy, is it good or bad. (Page 147/181)
84fiero123 JAN 12, 06:04 PM
I don’t worry about us, what I worry about is that the people here who have an education don’t see what is happening to this country and the economy.

E commerce is at best on it’s way up, yes, but with today’s fad of sending work overseas just how long before your job and others are outsourced?

10 years ago it was at best a startup company, right?

So you are what 30-35 at the most?

You have not seen what I and others here have seen, and remember.

You don’t get it obviously just as others here don’t get it. It is getting worse as time goes by. The constant infusion of money by the government of money we don’t have.
Jobs going overseas and American jobs going down hill, pay wise. Sure the unemployment numbers are not real bad because peoples benefits run out. Others give up on looking for good paying jobs and take something paying a lot less, just to get by. Then those people can’t pay those credit card bills, mortgages, car payments.
Gas and fuel oil prices skyrocketing, with no end in sight.

Has your pay kept up with the price of gas?

I say by the end of this year we are going to be one of the worst recessions we have seen, if not worse.

Say what you like. Lets see what happens come the end of this year.

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

Uaana JAN 12, 07:10 PM
 
quote
Originally posted by 84fiero123:

E commerce is at best on it’s way up, yes, but with today’s fad of sending work overseas just how long before your job and others are outsourced?
I guess you missed the earlier article I posted. We're doing alright and growing every year (the sector as a whole) Most of the weaker companies have been bought out or failed outright.
Outsourced? Interesting thought, we have offices in Tokyo, Taipei, London, Cologne, and Shannon.
We do use some Indian contractors already, I'm actually training 3 of them now. It's not really the kind of job you can outsource as we have to meet clients.. It would be like outsourcing a car salesman to India.. just doesn't make sense.

10 years ago it was at best a startup company, right?
Close, 14

So you are what 30-35 at the most?
39, turn 40 this year.

You have not seen what I and others here have seen, and remember.

Yes I do, I remember the Carter years, start of the Misery index. I remember the 80s and 10+percent morgtages. Living through that time pushed my in the direction of becoming a conservative. Being Teamster finished the tilt.

Has your pay kept up with the price of gas?
Exceeded it.

I say by the end of this year we are going to be one of the worst recessions we have seen, if not worse.
Hope not, one of the reasons I follow politics. I see this and the previous group spending too much of our money on useless junk (earmarks) We need some people who understand fiscal responsibility and will make the cuts where needed.

Social Security is broken period, and will need to be changed.
Medicare not far behind, Bush's plan while not perfect has helped quite a bit with a bankrupt system.

What I want to see is an end of the Hand out government and entitlement mentality. The last bunch of R's acted like Dem lights, spending money like Squids on liberty.
Say what you like. Lets see what happens come the end of this year.

I hope you're wrong.
I'm not excited about the economy tanking, and I hope the Fed/Congress/Senate/Pres pull their head out of their collective asses.
The main thing that has kept the econ rolling as it has is lack of gov't involvement soon as you start letting peanut farmers, and trial lawyers mess with fiscal policy you're asking for bad things.

PS. I purposely didn't touch too much on the outsourcing buying foreign stuff for a reason.. We've had that debate before on the various Union threads.. It will never be 1965 again.. period
84fiero123 JAN 12, 07:24 PM
See I remember the Nixon years, even the Johnson years, to be honest I remember Kennedy getting shot. I’m 52, 53 in 2 months.

So I have seen just a little more of what the politicians can do to the country.

Seen the gas embargos and gas lines of the 70’s. I remember waiting in line for gas only to get there to have no gas.

Between the politicians and the CEO’s were are lucky to have any jobs here. None of them care about anyone else but themselves and just how fat they can get their retirement funds.

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

AntiKev JAN 12, 07:51 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by 84fiero123:
Between the politicians and the CEO’s were are lucky to have any jobs here. None of them care about anyone else but themselves and just how fat they can get their retirement funds.


And you would do the same in their situation. Greed and selfishness are basic principles of the human race, we wouldn't be where we are without them.
84fiero123 JAN 12, 07:57 PM
Chronology
August 23, 1973—In preparation for the Yom Kippur War, Saudi King Faisal and Egyptian president Anwar Sadat meet in Riyadh and secretly negotiate an accord whereby the Arabs will use the "oil weapon" as part of the upcoming military conflict[3].
September 15—The Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) declares a negotiating front, consisting of the 6 Persian Gulf States, to pressure for price increases and an end to support of Israel, based on the 1971 Tehran agreement.
October 6—Egypt and Syria attack Israel on Yom Kippur, starting the fourth Arab-Israeli War.
October 8–October 10—OPEC negotiations with oil companies to revise the 1971 Tehran price agreement fail.
October 16—Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Abu Dhabi, Kuwait, and Qatar unilaterally raise posted prices by 17% to $3.65 per barrel and announce production cuts.
October 17—OPEC oil ministers agree to use oil as a weapon to punish the West for its support of Israel in the Arab-Israeli war. They recommend an embargo against unfriendly states and mandate a cut in exports.
October 19—Saudi Arabia, Libya and other Arab states proclaim an embargo on oil exports to the United States.
October 23–October 28—The Arab oil embargo is extended to the Netherlands.
November 5—Arab producers announce a 25% output cut. A further 5% cut is threatened.
November 23—The Arab embargo is extended to Portugal, Rhodesia, and South Africa.
November 27—U.S. President Richard Nixon signs the Emergency Petroleum Allocation Act authorizing price, production, allocation and marketing controls.
December 9—Arab oil ministers agree to another five percent cut for non-friendly countries for January 1974.
December 25—Arab oil ministers cancel the five percent output cut for January. Saudi oil minister Yamani promises a ten percent OPEC production rise.
January 7–January 9, 1974—OPEC decides to freeze prices until April 1.
February 11—United States Secretary of State Henry Kissinger unveils the Project Independence plan to make U.S. energy independent.
February 12–February 14—Progress in Arab-Israeli disengagement brings discussion of oil strategy among the heads of state of Algeria, Egypt, Syria and Saudi Arabia.
March 17—Arab oil ministers, with the exception of Libya, announce the end of the embargo against the United States.

The effects of the embargo were immediate. OPEC forced the oil companies to increase payments drastically. The price of oil quadrupled by 1974 to nearly US$12 per barrel (75 US$/m³).[4]
This increase in the price of oil had a dramatic effect on oil exporting nations, for the countries of the Middle East who had long been dominated by the industrial powers were seen to have acquired control of a vital commodity. The traditional flow of capital reversed as the oil exporting nations accumulated vast wealth. Some of the income was dispensed in the form of aid to other underdeveloped nations whose economies had been caught between higher prices of oil and lower prices for their own export commodities and raw materials amid shrinking Western demand for their goods. Much of it, however, fell into the hands of elites who reinvested it in the West or enhanced their own well-being. Much was absorbed in massive arms purchases that exacerbated political tensions, particularly in the Middle East.
OPEC-member states in the developing world withheld the prospect of nationalization of the companies' holdings in their countries. Most notably, the Saudis acquired operating control of Aramco, fully nationalizing it in 1980 under the leadership of Ahmed Zaki Yamani. As other OPEC nations followed suit, the cartel's income soared. Saudi Arabia, awash with profits, undertook a series of ambitious five-year development plans, of which the most ambitious, begun in 1980, called for the expenditure of $250 billion. Other cartel members also undertook major economic development programs.
Meanwhile, the shock produced chaos in the West. In the United States, the retail price of a gallon of gasoline rose from a national average of 38.5 cents in May 1973 to 55.1 cents in June 1974. Meanwhile, New York Stock Exchange shares lost $97 billion in value in six weeks.
With the onset of the embargo, U.S. imports of oil from the Arab countries dropped from 1.2 million barrels (190,000 m³) per day to 19,000 barrels (3,000 m³). Daily consumption dropped by 6.1% from September to February, and by 7% during summer of 1974, as the United States suffered its first fuel shortage since the Second World War.[citations needed]

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

84fiero123 JAN 12, 08:02 PM

quote
Originally posted by AntiKev:
And you would do the same in their situation. Greed and selfishness are basic principles of the human race, we wouldn't be where we are without them.



NO

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

afRaceR JAN 12, 09:27 PM
i stole this from another forum, but the guy is spot on with explaining the current state of affairs. Everybody that believes the country is still in a state of growth, please read this and click the link. There are plenty of graphs that show how actual growth is much lower than reported when you use CPI.



quote
Ok, this is a challenge for some economists to really grasp because of the brainwashing they must endure before they achieve the title of economists. I hope I can explain it in such a way that it is easy to understand. I hope this will better illustrate why U.S. investors are being completely fooled and manipulated.

First, go to this link and view the very first graph labeled "Dow stock index"

http://www.nowandfutures.co...ation_long_term.html

This graph uses real inflation, and inflation produced by the government. This is important. Look at both lines. If you look at real inflation, you will notice that the Dow is not any higher since 1995. For 12 years the stock market has done nothing, zip, nada. If you had 10k invested in the Dow index in 1995, then today in 2008 you would still only have 10k in purchasing power. Granted you would have been somewhat insulated from inflation at that time, but then just look at it if you got in 1999. People think the market is going up, it is not. The market is just riding up with inflation.

Now consider this. The stock market is going down at the moment. So if the stock market is going down and the USD is going down, which is what the market is priced in, then consider how fast you are losing money. You are losing money in two ways at the same time.

The stock market is going down now, but soon inflation will really take hold (6-12 months imo). The stock markets WILL go up once inflationary profits are realized b/c the USD will keep going down. It will. Remember this though...inflationary profits are not real profits. They are an illusion. Even though the market will appear like it is going up, your purchasing power is really going down. Do not be fooled. As U.S. citizens we are not used to high inflation. You have to alter your mentality or you will lose. If you look up any economy that experienced hyperinflation, this was always the case. Investors lose. You can not even short stocks and make money anymore because the whole market is green. It is the currency that is the root of the problem...

Please do not trust an advisor or broker or whatever. They have no clue. This is not textbook. There is no game plan for this. They have nothing to recommend to you by using their scripted responses. Research this on your own and be light years ahead of entry Wall Street investors...big smart money left late 2007....bag holders will be left with the rest if you are just an average investor...
84Bill JAN 13, 09:12 AM
Oh.. Thank You... Thank You... Thank You... I've been saved!!!
The world has suddenly gotten better. I see no limit credit cards & money falling like rain from the sky. Gas, food, housing all cheap, cheap, cheap. Oh my.... Thank You!

Here... This is for you

SH Sew it into your spandex costume, just be sure place it over the spot where your fist makes contact with your chest.


quote
Originally posted by My Personal Hero:
Again.. look at the 1, 3, 5 yr trends

Someone once said about investing.. you can make money in a bull market, you can make money in a bear market.. but pigs always get slaughtered.

Bill is looking at day to day trends and drive by media (what's the gloom of the day) and completely ignoring where we are in historical context.

Yes a 200 point drop off in 1932 would have been catastrophic, in todays market of 13+k it's an adjustment blip. Your boy Soros knows this as do any real investment broker or hell any semi serious follower of the market.
Only reporters who know nothing of markets and or economics would even submit this kinda junk as news..
But then the media buyers who have to have their daily fix of "it's all going to hell" to justify their lot in life eat any and all negative news as proof that the US is going in the crapper unless we give them more money and gov't cheese.




quote
Originally posted by My Personal Hero:

Or to make things simple for Bill.

the market would have to take a 1000+ point drop to even come close to what was experienced on black Tue.

And even then might not even start a panic.
A. the DJIA is not the only market anymore even if it's at over 13,000
B. Investors have learned to spread along not just the dow but nikki, nasdaq, and other foreign / alternate markets.

I understand that living in your cave and waiting for your next hand out this might confuse or worry you.. but don't worry.. long term the economy is doing fine. (not great.. but fine would cover how things are going) real and or disciplined investors don't panic on blips.



If everything is just rosy and bright then why has the fed been slashing rates and releasing billions of dollars into the system?


Well.....? Can you explain that to all of us mere mortals who obviously lack your superior economic X-Ray vision?


In case of emergency, slash rates
Some are calling for the Fed to cut rates sooner rather than later, since Wall Street thinks we're heading into a recession -- if we're not already in one.

[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 01-13-2008).]

afRaceR JAN 14, 12:46 AM
Where's all the "goldilocks" economists to bash my post? I guess because there's no reference to the words "would" or "could" or "toilet" they don't have an argument. Too hard to bash facts I guess.
afRaceR JAN 14, 01:11 AM
More proof foreign countries are loosing faith in the dollar........



quote
Dollars No Good at Indian Tourist Sites
January 3, 2008 - 6:40am
NEW DELHI (AP) - No dollars, just rupees please

In a sign of how the once mighty U.S. dollar has fallen, India's tourism minister said Thursday that U.S. dollars will no longer be accepted at the country's heritage tourist sites, like the famed Taj Mahal.

For years the dollar was worth about 50 rupees and tourists visiting most sites in India were charged either $5 or 250 rupees.

But with the dollar at a nine-year low against the rupee _ falling 11 percent in 2007 alone and now hovering at around 39 rupees _ that deal has become a losing proposition for the tourism industry.

The country's tourism minister said, though, that the decision was only in part a reaction to the currency's plunging value.

"Before the dollar lost its value, there was a demand to have (admission tickets) just in rupees," Tourism Minister Ambika Soni told the CNN-IBN news channel.

Soni said that charging only rupees would not only be more practical, but would save money because "the dollar was weaker against the rupee."

The Taj Mahal, India's famed white marble monument to love, which had charged tourists $15 or 750 rupees, has been refusing to accept dollars since November.

The move makes visits pricier for American tourists, who now have to shell out nearly $20.

And it's likely to get worse.

"We expect a slight appreciation of the rupee to continue, although it won't be as dramatic as last year," said Agam Gupta, head of foreign exchange trading at Standard Chartered Bank in India.

The dollar has fallen against most major currencies, and it has lost ground against the rupee due to an influx of foreign capital into India, said Gupta.

Soni said she was not worried about the decision affecting tourism numbers as India provided more than just budget attractions.

"I always say it's not numbers I am looking for or working for. I am working for tourists to have a complete experience," she said.


(Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.)