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| Landscaper Under Fire for Refusing to Work for Gays (Page 14/65) |
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jstricker
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NOV 12, 04:07 PM
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More insults. Not only are you a hypocrite, but now you're just being childish as well.
John Stricker
| quote | Originally posted by 84Bill:
I will ALWAYS take the extreme when it comes to defending equality and fair treatemt in the United States because that is what this country is all about.. PEOPLE who have no interest in defending others rights to fair and impartial treatment without regard to self. I joined the serice and was willing to die FOR EVERYONE.. not just a few here, a few there or my own reasons.. but for America and Americans.
I am a MILITANT in every sense of the word when it comes to defending the rights of people to fair treatment and I'm damn proud of that.
AGAIN
John can hate gays... I don't care.. but he can not OPENLY discriminate against them and at the same time be a public entity. Thats not America.. thats as bad as hating "niggers" because they are black and most call those types "neo-nazis." I call them wackos and john is a wacko too.
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84Bill
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NOV 12, 04:13 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by jstricker:
More insults. Not only are you a hypocrite, but now you're just being childish as well.
John Stricker
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Not nearly as insulting to know I share this country with haters like you. But alas.. thats what I must try to be more tolorant of.. So go ahead.. speek your mind and voice your opinions of discrimination and hatred toward others and I will do the same to you in return with an equal sense of pride.
Love you John 
Bill[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 11-12-2006).]
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Formula88
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NOV 12, 04:37 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Nurb432:
If is my private business i will refuse anyone for any reason i see fit. Since i dont receive any governmental assistance, or contracts i have the right.
Now, it may be stupid of me to turn away the business ( $ ), but its still my right.
( there are a few exceptions in the law, like for housing, or as i mentioned before 'with governmental ties', but overall this is true )
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Go back and read my post after I added more info. You do NOT have the legal right to refuse service to someone on the basis of race, color, religion, or national origin according the the Federal Civil Rights Act.
"The Federal Civil Rights Act guarantees all people the right to "full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation, without discrimination or segregation on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin."
The Civil Rights Act doesn't specifically mention sexual orientation, but the precident is set in California that you can't discriminate on that basis without a legitimate business reason.
This has nothing to do with whether or not you have any governmental ties. All places of public accommodation are bound by the law.
A public accommodation is a private entity that owns, operates, leases, or leases to, a place of public accommodation. Places of public accommodation include a wide range of entities, such as restaurants, hotels, theaters, doctors' offices, pharmacies, retail stores, museums, libraries, parks, private schools, and day care centers. Private clubs and religious organizations are exempt from the ADA's title III requirements for public accommodations.
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Boondawg
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NOV 12, 04:38 PM
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Two things that tend to get overlooked with things like this:
1. Is a gay person refused equality becouse of how they carry themselves in public, or becouse of what they do in thier bedroom? Either way, being seen as "different" (by making it public knowlage) is not reason enough to deny equal treatment.
2. Today, someone is refused equality becouse of how they look or who they sleep with. Tomorrow YOU are refused equality becouse your hair color has been determined to be a sign of evil or refused equality becouse you are sleeping with someone with the wrong hair color.
Far-fetched?
Look at this last year.
It started with grabbing known terrorists, putting them in secret prisons, torturing them, and keeping them there without charges or a trial.
Then it went to "suspected" terrorists.
Now they can do it to ANYONE, for something as little as owning the wrong BOOK.
And you have no recourse.
I find it impossable to believe that people cannot see beyond today.
They see neither the PAST, nor TOMMORROW.
Whats happening today, has happened before, and changes our tomorrows.
History has shown us what works and what don't.
Why do people not heed that?
Why do we keep repeating the mistakes of the past.
They were hard learned lessons, and now we just throw them away.
We pretend what's happening today is FAR different then what has happened in the past.
Today's war is no different then the very FIRST war.
Each side thinks the other side is evil, or not as "enlightened" as them.
They are different, and that is bad.
"Difference, of any kind, is bad. It is to be feared & reviled. It must be destroyed. We are right, they are wrong"
What you do to one man, you do to all men.
Eventually, it is done to you.
And then you cry out, "Why? I'm not one of them, I'm one of you!"
But you have let to much slip by you, while being part of the "We".
Becouse the "We" has turned into the "I".
And that makes you "Them".
See, when the ruling "We", is replaced by the Ruling "I", everyone else is "Them".
And "Them" is bad.
Always has been.
When you start judging people "From On High", don't fool yourself by thinking there is no one ABOVE you, watching how YOU live. And if it is not inline with those above YOU, well, you should not be surprised to where you will be religated.
Becouse, after all, It was your way.
One final thought:
READ HISTORY.
LEARN FROM IT.
APPLY IT.
"Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee." - John Donne
"When Hitler attacked the Jews I was not a Jew, therefore I was not concerned. And when Hitler attacked the Catholics, I was not a Catholic, and therefore, I was not concerned. And when Hitler attacked the unions and the industrialists, I was not a member of the unions and I was not concerned. Then Hitler attacked me and the Protestant church and there was nobody left to be concerned." - Pastor Martin Niemöller
"To be nobody but yourself - in a world which is doing its best, night and day, to make you everybody else - means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can fight, and never stop fighting." - e.e. cummings
"All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others." - George Orwell
"To be, or not to be: that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep;
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to, 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep;
To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub;
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause: there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life;
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
The oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
The pangs of despised love, the law's delay,
The insolence of office and the spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscover'd country from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all;
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pith and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry,
And lose the name of action.--Soft you now!
The fair Ophelia! Nymph, in thy orisons
Be all my sins remember'd." - William Shakespeare
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84Bill
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NOV 12, 04:39 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by DRA:
I would rather they be honest and in my mind that does make them respectful of me, now if they had lied to me and told me they had no problem servicing me and then telling their friends how they really felt, I feel that would be disrespectful. If lieing about ones beleifs (no matter how backward I perceive them) is seen as the respectful path to take then I guess I'm not a very respectable guy.
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Well.. thats fine for you but not fine for others so whats the solution... I KNOW.. how about equality? Just forget bias and just be NICE to one another? Ohhh really hard to do. 
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They had the respect and honesty to tell the people why they were refusing to bid on the job, they did not jack their price to avoid getting the contract, they did not take a job they knew they would not WANT to do, they are being punished or at least ridiculed for their beliefs as much or more than the couple they refused to give a bid.
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I think you are a communist sympathizer and neo nazi.... I may be honest but would it be fair to refuse you a job just because of that?
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I am in no way saying my opinion or thoughts are the end all final word on ANY subject, sometimes things aren't just cut and dry and I realize that. I would hope that that would make me a more tolerant and understanding person but it does not negate my core beliefs.
The idea that tolerance is in any way related to enabling or endorsing something or negating my own beliefs is not my way of thinking.
If the lanscaper had burned down the couples house and hung them I would agree they were quite intollerant, but the fact that they choose not to associate themselves with someone because of that persons lifestyle, race, national origin, or religous beliefs does not scream intolorence to me. It simply tells me they are very dedicated to their own beliefs, right or wrong, and as long as they are not forcing their personal beliefs on others I have no problem with it.
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Those people can move out of this country and to Afghanistan if they want.. No gays there. Here we have both gay Americans and Afghani Americans.. but I like to level that even further and just call them Americans. I'm tolorant of all Americans but I do not tolorate haters... the "intolorant"
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And I am listening to your point of view and opinion on the subject, you are entitled to your opinions and beliefs and I quite honestly don't have a problem with the way you feel about the subject but also know that you are no more right or wrong than I am. It is a personal preference in the way we percieve things and feel about them, there will always be one or more desenting opinions on everything. |
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Oh I'm right and far more right than I am wrong. I have no interest in the gay lifestyle.. I have no interest in the christian lifestyle.. I am NON BIAS toward either but I demand equal treatment for all people IN PUBLIC. Gays don't discriminate against christians.. do they?? I'm sure they do but thats a federal offense and the punnishment is steep!
Hey sit in your haouse and bash gays.. or morphodites.. I don't care.. just don't USE your BIAS and your business to discriminate. Thats just flat out WRONG
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jstricker
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NOV 12, 04:50 PM
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I am not talking about race, something a person is born with and has no control over.
I am not talking about age, something out of the control of the person.
I am not talking about sex, something determined at birth and is not a choice.
I am talking about someone who CHOOSES to live an OPENLY GAY LIFESTYLE. I'm not even going to get into the debate if it's a genetic or learned response, I don't care. Either way you're talking about someone who has CHOSEN to live their lives a certain way.
Fine. Have at it. My religion, my upbringing, and even the natural order of biology all tell me this is a deviant lifestyle and it is wrong, but that's OK with me too if you want to live a deviant lifestyle...............BUT LEAVE ME OUT OF IT. That's all. Nothing more. Do what you like. So will I. I choose NOT to associate with those people that live a deviant lifestyle be that openly homosexual, illegal drug user, alcoholics, and any other number of deviancies. But go ahead and shoot yourself up with whatever you like, as long as it does me no harm I don't care. Sleep with whoever you want, of whatever gender, as often as you want, I don't care, but don't tell me I HAVE TO ACCEPT IT AS NORMAL AND HEALTHY because I'm not going to do that.
Living an openly homosexual life IS A CHOICE just as much as living an openly heterosexual lifestyle is. A lot of people live neither because they choose to. Probably moreso than those that choose to live a homosexual lifestyle. It's a choice. Make it. Be happy. Just don't ORDER ME to pay for it and don't twist YOUR INSISTENCE ON MY ACCEPTANCE AS BEING MY INTOLERANCE.
A classic example of making a victim out of the perpetrator.
John Stricker
| quote | Originally posted by Boondawg:
Two things that tend to get overlooked with things like this:
1. Is a gay person refused equality becouse of how they carry themselves in public, or becouse of what they do in thier bedroom? Either way, being seen as "different" (by making it public knowlage) is not reason enough to deny equal treatment.
2. Today, someone is refused equality becouse of how they look or who they sleep with. Tomorrow YOU are refused equality becouse your hair color has been determined to be a sign of evil or refused equality becouse you are sleeping with someone with the wrong hair color.
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84Bill
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NOV 12, 04:58 PM
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Well laaa teee daaaaa.. looks gay to me!
I wonder if mom-and-pop landscaping will deny trimming those guys bushes because they are openly "man loving" eachother?[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 11-12-2006).]
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jstricker
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NOV 12, 05:01 PM
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To you, it would. I saw the same pictures a long time ago and that thought never crossed my mind. Now who's intolerant?
John Stricker
| quote | Originally posted by 84Bill:
Well laaa teee daaaaa.. looks gay to me!
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whadeduck
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NOV 12, 05:02 PM
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Ok, that's kinda weird. What's the story behind that? Something in the protocol books?
------------------
Whade' "The Duck Formerly Known As Wade" Duck
'87 GT Auto
'88 Ferrario
'84 Indy (8/26/06)[This message has been edited by whadeduck (edited 11-12-2006).]
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84Bill
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NOV 12, 05:07 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by jstricker:
To you, it would. I saw the same pictures a long time ago and that thought never crossed my mind. Now who's intolerant?
John Stricker |
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I don't really care about those pictures and what they mean I don't like government and government officials... As is my right to always be weary of them. They are holding hands and what appears to be kissing... ohhh scarry ground there.. next thing you know... the bedroom...  better install a camera!
Thanks John.. now.. go hold up a mirror and take a good hard look at yourself.  [This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 11-12-2006).]
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