The economy, is it good or bad. (Page 132/181)
84Bill JAN 07, 07:32 AM
Heheh back on topic hehehhhe.

Automakers end a tough '07 with lower sales
Most automakers post year-over-year decline in December - the weakest for full-year sales since 1998; U.S.-based automakers continue to lose ground to imports.

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Automakers posted lower sales in December, closing out a difficult year that likely brought the worst performances of the decade in the face of higher gasoline prices and declining home values.

Industry wide sales were off nearly 3 percent in the month from the year-earlier period, although they rebounded nearly 18 percent from the very weak November sales level, according to preliminary figures from sales tracker Autodata. Still even with the rebound, the full-year sales ended down 2.5 percent - at their weakest level since 1998.

I wonder if they had one of our own forum members write that article. A "rebound" that ends with the weakest level since 1998."

[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 01-07-2008).]

aceman JAN 07, 08:09 AM
Mr Bitter,

YOU are FAAAAARRRRRR from innocent on degrading other people's opinions and getting into a pissing match with others!
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BTW Bill, because you didn't read my post that you tried to slam about what taxes I pay...... I OWN a $235,000 house that I pay $3200 a year in property taxes. I RENT an efficiency apartment here in Omaha for $250/month. I also do have farm land that I pay property taxes on. I suppose because I rent that land that the renters are the ones that pay the taxes on that land and not me, huh? I guess that's a bit more property taxes than you pay to Mommy.

I don't pay Federal Income Taxes, but I do pay FICA and Unemployment Taxes. That's just a little bit more than you have probably paid combined in the past 10 years.
Pyrthian JAN 07, 09:57 AM

quote
Originally posted by aceman:


So is it "(A)in the toilet" , "(B)going down", "(C)in trouble" or what? It can't be all three of them at once, Mr. Bitter. Remember, the nice people that write the articles you try to comprehend use catch words like "Could", May", "Fears", "Might"

So those of us middle-class Americans that post the the economy is not as bad as you think, are doing well? So if middle-class Americans are doing well, and Upper -class Americans are doing well, then the majority are doing well and I guess the economy is not in the toilet.



it is B. going down. it is not yet C - in trouble, but certainly not A - in the toilet
there is no way anyone can say that they can get as much for $100 as you could before 9/11.
and, I do beleive that 9/11 was the tip point.

tho, another "basic" indicator is, it used to be that the average child would surpass their parents in economic standing. that is not as likely anymore.
Formula88 JAN 07, 10:27 AM

quote
Originally posted by Pyrthian:


there is no way anyone can say that they can get as much for $100 as you could before 9/11.
and, I do beleive that 9/11 was the tip point.



This is a bit misleading. For just about any period of time in recent history, your dollar has bought less from one year to the next.

$100 in 1970, compared to it's buying power in later years:

1970 - $100.00
1980 - $ 50.41
1990 - $ 29.52
2000 - $ 22.04
2002 - $ 20.98
2004 - $ 20.11
2006 - $ 18.83

While you can clearly tell the poor economy in the 70's with the drastic drop in buying power of about 50%, even during the economic growth of the 80's and 90's, the buying power still declined every year, dropping 41% in the 80s and 25% in the 90s. From 2000 - 2006, the dollar's buying power has dropped 14.5%, and while that doesn't include 2007, it does cover the 9/11 era.

Keep in mind that "buying power" is not the same thing as the dollar's value on the global market. These figures are based on inflation and the consumer price index.

$100 in 1970 would take $531 in 2006 to have the same buying power.
aceman JAN 07, 10:40 AM

quote
Originally posted by Pyrthian:


it is B. going down. it is not yet C - in trouble, but certainly not A - in the toilet
there is no way anyone can say that they can get as much for $100 as you could before 9/11.
and, I do beleive that 9/11 was the tip point.

tho, another "basic" indicator is, it used to be that the average child would surpass their parents in economic standing. that is not as likely anymore.



My viewpoint is that it is "In Trouble" but not yet a "Going down the toilet"

From being in trouble it MAY (catch word) go down the toilet. From being in trouble it MAY (catch word) continue to show stagnant GROWTH. From being in trouble it MAY (catch word) rebound and have good growth.
Formula88 JAN 07, 10:54 AM

quote
Originally posted by aceman:


My viewpoint is that it is "In Trouble" but not yet a "Going down the toilet"

From being in trouble it MAY (catch word) go down the toilet. From being in trouble it MAY (catch word) continue to show stagnant GROWTH. From being in trouble it MAY (catch word) rebound and have good growth.



And that uncertainty is responsible for much of the wild swings in the Dow, independant of the actual economic performance.
Investors are worried, and that's a more powerful factor than taxes, jobs, and unemployment.
86blackse JAN 07, 11:00 AM
how in the hell did this thread ALSO get turned into another pissing contest..why not END it cliff ????????? it has nothing at ALL to do with the economy....its totaly B.S.....another thread distroyed by this kind of garabge!!!
84fiero123 JAN 07, 11:03 AM

quote
Originally posted by aceman:
They stack mobile homes three high? I've never seen that. I did see once where they put mobile homes into a 4 tier girder tower as an apartment complex. We called it Tornado Towers.



Actually I was 24 when I bought my first home in 78, I had to think back on that. The 70’s were a very fuzzy time for me. It was a 3 decker, three story wood framed home with three apartments and cost $20,000.

That same home is somewhere in the ½ million dollar range.

This is part of the problem with the economy today. Most people are not making that much more than they did in the 70’s. yes they are making more but not enough to keep pace with inflation.

I made money on that one, the rents where around 200 a month, and they more than paid the taxes, utilities and any other bills with money to spare.

Problem is my first wife got that one in the divorce.

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Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

Phranc JAN 07, 11:08 AM
Hobby farmer I like how you say I have no argument. When yours is the same tired rehashed articles. And then there are bills arguments that he thinks he knows what hes talking about but really doesn't. So I have a bitter man who uses his crutches and an idiot who doesn't understand what he posts making doom and gloom posts about how bad the economy is. Yet neither of you can drum up numbers showing negative growth. In fact all leading indicators still show positive growth. Just less of it then before. And 4th GDP was up in the black. Yup thats right still growing. Not negative.

When you two actually learn about the subject and get a clue maybe you wont get so pissy and frustrated from being shown to be nothing more then ignorant. At least you stopped blaming the stroke. And bills only excuse is that hes an idiot. IF you are going to post things you could try to understand them. Instead of posting things that contradict the point your' attempting and failing to put forth. Remember billy down is less then before but not less then zero.

Or you two could stop whining about the economy and actually add to it.
Pyrthian JAN 07, 11:10 AM

quote
Originally posted by aceman:
My viewpoint is that it is "In Trouble" but not yet a "Going down the toilet"

From being in trouble it MAY (catch word) go down the toilet. From being in trouble it MAY (catch word) continue to show stagnant GROWTH. From being in trouble it MAY (catch word) rebound and have good growth.



wow - thats surprising - I was under the impression you were more confident in the economy than I was.
Here in Detroit - yes - In Trouble. and maybe even dropping pants for the toilet.....not yet in, or going down tho