The economy, is it good or bad. (Page 122/181)
afRaceR JAN 06, 12:47 PM
The question is not whether individuals are doing well in an economy, there will always be individuals doing well even in a totally broke economy. I got a 13% raise this year, but I'm just one person. There are many people working at $10 an hour that may get a 3% raise, if that. That's not really the point. From 1980 to 2006, inflation annualized 3.5%. These people aren't even keeping up with the rate of inflation, much less with the price of the falling dollar. This is not a question of living beyond ones means. There is a huge section of unskilled workers in this country, and growing as jobs are being sent overseas. How do these people affect the countries economy?

The value of the dollar is falling, as of right now, Canada's dollar is almost EVEN! The Euro is gaining value, especially since the Fed has loward interest rates - again. I hear people say it, well its in our interest for a lowered value dollar because it makes exports cheaper to foreign markets. But oil, which is traded in dollars, is going through the roof. the price of a barrel of oil in 1980 traded for around $21 a barrel, in todays money that same 1980 barrel of oil would cost you around $75. What this mean, is the value is tanking, foreign markets that used to hold dollars because the value was fairly stable are now converting them into Euros - or some other currency. Countries aren't trusting the value of the dollar, so they convert their dollars into another currency that is either increasing or has a stable value. This increased supply of dollars, devalues the dollar even more. Eventually, if the dollar keeps falling, the dollar will not be the worlds currency. Take this with the fact that the reserve is continueing to increase the supply of dollars to pay for wars and government programs, the dollar is in a very dangerous position - and we will suffer as a result, not foreign markets.

From 1775 to 1913, coincidently the year the Federal Reserve was created, the interest rate annualized at .19% - that's about 140 years. From 1913 to 2006, interest rates annualized at 3.33%, that's only 83 years! The Federal Reserve was supposed to protect our economy but the facts show they are destroying it. Since the Fed has started operating, they have created these bubbles which have helped to created recessions - directly responsible for the Great Depression. Instead of letting the market operate correctly in cycles, they create and fuel bubbles that grow way beyond what the market can sustain until they pop. In the end, these bubbles make a few men very rich and busts the rest of us that bought into their scams. The dollar that the Fed started out with in 1913 is only worth about 4 pennies today. Mises, who predicted the destruction of the German Mark, says that when a currency is on the brink, it will not be uncommon to use thousands - or millions - of a currency to buy common everyday needs. In 1908, a model T cost about $1250, in todays money it would cost about $21,000, using only GDP deflater, with CPI it would be closer to $28,000 - or about what you can buy a base model car for today. These are indicators that have been ignored but, as history has shown for other currencies, we cannot.

Our GDP, is extremely high for a developed country. If we were a third world country, there would be some real concerns about our economy.

quote
At an estimated $670 billion, or 5.7% of gross domestic product (GDP), the 2004 current account deficit is the largest ever. An already huge trade deficit (the amount exports fall short of imports) made worse by high oil prices, along with rock bottom private savings and a gaping federal budget deficit, have helped push the U.S. current account deficit into uncharted territory. The last time it was above 4% of GDP was in 1816, and no other country has ever run a current account deficit that equals nearly 1% of the world's GDP. If current trends continue, the gap could reach 7.8% of U.S. GDP by 2008, according to Nouriel Roubini of New York University and Brad Setser of University College, Oxford, two well-known finance economists.

Most of the current account deficit stems from the U.S. trade deficit (about $610 billion). The rest reflects the remittances immigrants send home to their families plus U.S. foreign aid (together another $80 billion) less net investment income (a positive $20 billion because the United States still earns more from investments abroad than it pays out in interest on its borrowing from abroad).

The current account deficit represents the amount of money the United States must attract from abroad each year. Money comes from overseas in two ways: foreign investors can buy stock in U.S. corporations, or they can lend money to corporations or to the government by buying bonds. Currently, almost all of the money must come from loans because European and Japanese investors are no longer buying U.S. stocks. U.S. equity returns have been trivial since 2000 in dollar terms and actually negative in euro terms since the dollar has lost ground against the euro.


Our government, and trade markets operate in such a way that causes deficits. Right now, we borrow and create more money to offset these deficits, but this connot continue. Bob Bernanke, who is the chairman of the Federal Reserve has even stated to the Congress, that although the government can continue to operate this way, it will not be sustainable long term. Common sense says if its not sustainable for the long term, why have we been doing it for the last 80+ years and continue to do it.

I think discussion has lead away from the topic, we all know there are individuals are doing well. The government and trade deficits, along with falling dollar values and high inflation are the real indicators that show we are in trouble. It doesn't matter how well individuals are doing right now, when the value of the dollar drops out, nobody will doing well.

[This message has been edited by afRaceR (edited 01-09-2008).]

Phranc JAN 06, 01:31 PM

quote
Originally posted by 84Bill:


You are a welfare recipient who doesn't even pay taxes. Since you are on the government dole you get a raise every year regardless of the economy



Projecting your own faults and failures on others again bill. Can you be anymore dishonest and/or stupid? An employee for the fed. actually works for their salary. Thats not welfare. Thats a job.
84fiero123 JAN 06, 02:13 PM
Hey Ace,

Did you sell that house of yours yet?

Just how long has it been on the market?

Just how long do you think you can keep paying those $1200 a month payment if you get canned?

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

84Bill JAN 06, 02:56 PM

quote
Originally posted by aceman:
Hmmmmmmm, paid $3,200 in property taxes last year Bill.



Income taxes.

People who rent dont pay property taxes.


quote

Nope, I didn't pay a dime in Federal Income Taxes. My tax credits and deduction dropped me to well below the taxable income line.



Even without the credits and blaa blaa you still wouldn't pay income taxes. You pay check comes from taxes therefore you dont pay taxes on your dole, you merely play a income tax shell game.


Face the facts space.
Your salary drains more from the coffers than 168 family's on welfare annually.


Phranc JAN 06, 03:04 PM

quote
Originally posted by 84Bill:
Face the facts space.
Your salary drains more from the coffers than 168 family's on welfare annually.




How is it a drain when Ace actually produces a service for his salary. Those on welfare just take take take.
Formula88 JAN 06, 03:11 PM

quote
Originally posted by 84Bill:
Even without the credits and blaa blaa you still wouldn't pay income taxes. You pay check comes from taxes therefore you dont pay taxes on your dole, you merely play a income tax shell game.




I must say, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
84Bill JAN 06, 03:14 PM

quote
Originally posted by Phranc:
Those on welfare just take take take.



How many?
84Bill JAN 06, 03:16 PM

quote
Originally posted by Douchebag:
I must say, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.




Great so I got kudos from a complete and total ass hole. Now all I need is a quarter and I can get a cup of coffee.
84fiero123 JAN 06, 03:30 PM
266 (taxes a month) + 1100 (mortgage) = 1366+ insurance every month for the Aceman

Oh ya what about all that land in the middle of no where, is that paid for?

Over 15% of Americans are without any health insurance.

Most are just one or two paychecks away from just being homeless.

Could you still pay for that house if you get canned?

How about if you get canned and have no health insurance and end up in the hospital?

See these are the problems with your attitude about how well the economy is doing.

Federal report cites drop in employer-sponsored coverage
By Steven Reinberg
Posted 8/28/07

TUESDAY, Aug. 28 (HealthDay News) -- A record number of Americans are without health insurance, according to new U.S. Census Bureau statistics released Tuesday.
Some of the trend can be explained by employers who are curtailing coverage or making it too costly for lower income workers to afford, the report said.
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"The number of people without health insurance coverage increased from 44.8 million in 2005 to 47 million in 2006," David S. Johnson, chief of the bureau's Housing and Household Economic Statistics Division, said during a teleconference Tuesday.
The percentage of Americans without health insurance rose to 15.8 percent in 2006 from 15.3 percent in 2005, Johnson added. "This is the second consecutive year of increase," he said.
At the same time, the number of people with health insurance increased to 249.8 million in 2006, from 249 million in 2005. The number of Americans covered by private health insurance and government insurance remained about the same, according to the report, Poverty, and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2006.

http://health.usnews.com/us...health-insurance.htm

And these numbers are growing.

Being middle class no longer means you are immune from these problems.

What happens if the government decides you are expendable?

You are one of the lucky few in a recession proof job.

The only bitter one here is you Ace.

Bitter because you are wrong but will not admit it. You know you are wrong but just as in any other case where you have been wrong you deflect by calling others bitter.

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

Phranc JAN 06, 03:33 PM

quote
Originally posted by 84Bill:



Great so I got kudos from a complete and total ass hole. Now all I need is a quarter and I can get a cup of coffee.



Really? I guess food stamps take up the rest of the cost.

And bill everyone on welfare takes. Thats what welfare is. You take handouts. They sure as hell aren't giving. Even a retarded monkey could have answered that question.