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| how to make a stock 4 cyl fiero fast (Page 12/20) |
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Oreif
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JAN 22, 09:33 PM
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| quote | | Originally posted by 88_Fiero_2M4: Those were some of the things that I mentioned but was told that it wouldnt work. that i would only see about 100 Hp.
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No, You stated your cousin and friend said you could get 200hp with just a cam change. I said with all the above mentioned mods you were looking at 120hp and I also provided a link to a webpage that had done all the work and Dyno'd the engine. It seems everytime you make an incorrect statement and are called on it, you change your story. Now you are changing your story again.
Also just as a fact of reference. You were told in the post you may get 100 RWHP Which is roughly 120hp at the flywheel.
Here is a rundown of your statements that are impossible:
"Put on the Holly Throttle body, Get the new Intake Manifold, and header, and Port and Polish. with all that you should find a little over 200 HP, After that it starts to get real expencive." "Both My friend and My cousin say that with the right cam and lifters alone could put the 2.5L in my Fiero Above 200 HP. " "I have heard from several mechanics from Back yard shops and from Dealer shops say that just removing the Cat on some cars can bring as much as 50 More hp since they are so restrictive on an engine."
If you do not believe these are youe statements, Just look at your posts on page 1.
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ditch
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JAN 22, 09:59 PM
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| quote | | Originally posted by 88Fiero2M4: Cut the Cat off, K&N filter, Remove the A/C belt, Comp Cam, and Roller Hydrolic Lifters. That will put you over the 140 hp mark and you will out run the stock V6 Fieros. Want to go faster yet. Put on the Holly Throttle body, Get the new Intake Manifold, and header, and Port and Polish. with all that you should find a little over 200 HP, After that it starts to get real expencive. |
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Figured I'd quote this in case someone decides to use the "edit" button.
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88_Fiero_2M4
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JAN 22, 10:15 PM
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So then your saying that a 120 hp engine looses 20 hp thru the drivetrain. I find that hard to believe. then if that is so the Chiltens manual states that the 88 Fiero 2M4 is making about 92 hp at the crank then its only putting about 73 hp to the ground. Wich I doubt that the hp loss is that high. I figure that a Transversly engine looses less hp then a front engined car driving the rear wheels since the power has to be transmitted thru a longer heaver shaft. I dont see a transverce engine losing that much power. However I dont think that a engine could be limited so much on making power..... there has to be a way to make more power but if you all insist on attacking what I have to say, Fine but I have yet to see a Fiero with a V8 in it so should I just believe that all those shown here are just photoshoped to look like they are or take your word for it? I live by one saying Believe nothing you hear and only half of what you see. On that saying I am skeptical of anything anyone says or shows here. So I agree that anything I say is just BS and you should be skeptical of anything I say. Till I can do it and prove it dont believe it, I didnt ask you to believe anything I said, But I also didnt ask to be called a Fag or anything else I was called. Most people see the possable and and ask why. I see the impossable and ask... why not.
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RWDPLZ
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JAN 22, 10:33 PM
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On Borla's Website they only list an exhaust system for the V6 (They also describe the Fiero as a 2.8L V6 AT/MT FWD 2dr  ) Did they make an exhaust for the duke/Tech4?Also found this at the Fiero Store: 1984 PERFORMANCE CAM & LIFTER KIT - This custom ground performance camshaft offers increased valve lift and duration over the stock unit. These cam profiles were selected to provide maximum power and are still compatible with GM electronics. Engines will breathe better, which greatly increases horsepower output. Lift - .497, Duration - 280 - $190 84-87 4 CYL CATALYTIC CONVERTER KIT - Free-flow catalytic converter with clamps and adapters - $119 Is there a better one, or cheaper? And something I've always wondered about: 1984 4 CYL STOCK ENGINE KIT W/PISTONS - Sealed Power engine kits provide all the necessary parts to completely rebuild your engine. Up-grade Hyperutectic pistons and Moly rings will increase power and performance. Kit includes: Pistons, Rings, Cam and Lifters, timing set, oil pump, all bearings (cam, rod, main), complete gasket and seal set, freeze plugs and new oil galley plugs. - $442.40 The only cranks I saw at the Fierostore were reconditioned, is there a good aftermarket alternative, or stronger GM one that could be put in? From Crane Cams:
http://www.cranecams.com/master/goldrace.htm Gold Race Extruded Roller Rockers Pontiac I-4 77-89 151 cu.in.
Stock ratio with enlarged stud diameter
99792- 1.71
7/16”
22750-8 o
o Must machine cylinder heads and install 4 of 99157-2 7/16" rocker arm studs and pushrod guideplates (heat treated pushrods required).
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RWDPLZ
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JAN 22, 10:38 PM
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USFiero
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JAN 22, 10:56 PM
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15% power loss through the drivetrain is normal, so your figures sound on. Bferrar your conclusion I hear repeated over and over again by folks who have tried to build up the Duke. It's got to be frustrasting to go to the effort and be rewarded with 'only' 15-20% increase in power. Well, I say only because if you get 15% more out of a 200 hp motor, you've got 230 hp. If you are starting with a sub-100 hp motor, a virtually unheard of 50% increase would be less than 150 hp! Not to mention reliabilty is going to go down as the power goes up. As someone pointed out, we're giving our 'commuter cars' a little too much credit. You're gonna have to start with a motor with more potential. I'm not opposed to beefing up the Duke (heck it sounds like wholsome fun) and would if for some reason I had to put one back in my Fiero, but I would probably go with the minimum stuff - mild intake/head work, cam, roller rockers and the all important crank (from whatever donor it came from) and stronger internals along with the 'basic' techniques...port and gasket matching, balancing. I've followed enough documented buildups over the years to know that catalytic converters don't take much power away from exhaust systems so I'd keep it legal and green kids. I remember when really good engine builders and $$ could squeeze about 1 hp per cubic inch. Hmmm. I'd be impressed if after all that I got 130 hp, a 30% increase.
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Oreif
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JAN 22, 11:19 PM
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| quote | | Originally posted by 88_Fiero_2M4: So then your saying that a 120 hp engine looses 20 hp thru the drivetrain. I find that hard to believe. then if that is so the Chiltens manual states that the 88 Fiero 2M4 is making about 92 hp at the crank then its only putting about 73 hp to the ground. Wich I doubt that the hp loss is that high. |
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Typically a transaxle loses 15-20% thru it. The regular trans with a seperate differential loses about 15-20% thru the trans AND another 10-15% thru the differential. Amazing how you find it so hard to believe the 15-20% of loss thru a transaxle but believe a cam will net you a 102% increase in power!!!! 
| quote | Originally posted by 88_Fiero_2M4:
there has to be a way to make more power but if you all insist on attacking what I have to say, Most people see the possable and and ask why. I see the impossable and ask... why not. |
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Because what you say is a true impossibility. Many have tried to explain it to you but you seem to not grasp the picture.
We have told you "why not" but you insist your friend and cousin know more than the folks who have actually tested mods and upgrades.
You think that the 2.5L in a Fiero flows as much air as 1/2 of a Chevy 350 V-8. Did you even go to the link I posted earlier about how they got 120hp out of a 2.5L?? Did you even read the article and understand the part about the flow thru the cylinder head and intake?
You stated : "Sure I personaly dont know much about tunning engines and I have never clamed that I personal have the knolege"
So how can you ask "why not" when you don't even grasp the basic concept when it is explained by numerous knowledgable forum members?
You came here and made statements that were based on assumptions from people with no experience on a particular engine, When those who have experience with the particular engine tell you it's not gonna happen, You get defensive and add more B.S. claims.
Now like a little hurt child you say "well I never saw a V-8 Fiero, so they don't exsist". Oh well, to each his own. [This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 01-22-2004).]
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88_Fiero_2M4
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JAN 23, 07:33 AM
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I was also told of another head that one can change to. it has better flow and is from a simular engine. also from another mechinic friend of mine. One dosnt tell all the mods they plan as I want to be the first there. why should I tell all what I am doing... Just so they can take credit for it. I have yet to put all the modifications that Me and my Friends have thougth of. and yes they are some cheaper ideas if you know where to look. I am still convinced that one can get 200 HP out of a duke and I will be there to try it. I hope by the end of this summer I will have it done. If one can get 1300 Hp out of a 350 then asking to get 200 hp out of the duke is not that far fetched. I have found an engine that is already out of the car and ready to rebuild... half of the work is already done on it I just have to buy the parts for it.
Yes the lower end needs to be beafed up..... do you all think that I havent been thinking of a way thru this problem? and the swapping the head Idea was told to me a year ago from another mechanic. I am not as stupid as I look. I can think just like anyone else and I do have planns around some if not most of the problems.
Why do I wish to stick with the duke.... cause I see most of you swapping engines and who is going to stick with the oringal motor that came with the car? why swap to another engine. I have heard how much of a headack that is.
I also saw someone point out using lighter weight parts... that cuts down some what on the hp lose by getting rid of some of the resistance, allowing a engine to rev faster, thus making it so the engine dosnt loose much power.
Sure totaly it isnt going to be cheap but if it is what I want then it is worth it..... Isnt it. If I were just to give up on it, wouldnt that be just like giving into the others who say that the Fiero isnt worth having or fixing up? Funny when you get that same arguement from the Fiero Community itself. But being that I have two Fieros maby I can go two differant ways with eather of them, the 86 I will be working on the duke, and the 88 will be getting a 3800 SC with a few other modifications. One suggestion here was to use Nitrus..... ya and I will put one of those funny wings on my car as well.... and maby some of those stickers.... the idea is to not be rice I thought and NOS is a ricers way. Becides as I said before, Nitrus is dangrous. you dont know how to use it I would suggest not to use it. you can blow up your engine just as fast as you can hit that button for it. NOS is not for the every day person. You if you dont do it right will burn thru several engines before you learn how to use it right. and If you dont beaf up the lower end with it will you not destroy the engine after about the 5 or so hit of that stuff as well. I for one would not be so stupid to use Nitrous. Like you all said its not built to handle such stress. [This message has been edited by 88_Fiero_2M4 (edited 01-23-2004).]
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crzyone
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JAN 23, 07:49 AM
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SMACK!!! Chevy 350- strong
Pontiac I4- Weak You can not go comparing a 350 block to a pontiac fuel sipper 4 banger. Is this not easy to understand? Thin walled blocks with weak cranks and restrictive EVERYTHING do not make good engines to build up!
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Oreif
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JAN 23, 09:29 AM
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| quote | | Originally posted by 88_Fiero_2M4: I was also told of another head that one can change to. it has better flow and is from a simular engine. also from another mechinic friend of mine. One dosnt tell all the mods they plan as I want to be the first there. why should I tell all what I am doing...
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Then why did you list specific mods and say you'll get to 200hp? This forum is to SHARE ideas. Not posting a few mods saying you'll get 200hp then later state your not going to list all the mods.
Yes, the SD4 head does flow a lot better, But it has been done before and STILL has not hit 200hp using a production 2.5L block. With the SD4 block you can get to 300hp but the factory block is no where near the strength of a block designed for racing/high performance. Which is another point members have tried to get across to you.
The 2.5L is NOT 1/2 of a 350SBC it is really half of a Pontiac 301 V-8 which also happens to be a weak block.
| quote | | Originally posted by 88_Fiero_2M4: Yes the lower end needs to be beafed up..... do you all think that I havent been thinking of a way thru this problem? and the swapping the head Idea was told to me a year ago from another mechanic. I am not as stupid as I look. I can think just like anyone else and I do have planns around some if not most of the problems.
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It is obvious you haven't been thinking about any problems. It seems that originally you thought a cam change will net you 200hp, and now you say you've known about a head swap a year ago. Like I stated above, This forum is to SHARE information and factual data. Neither of which you appear to be doing.
That is what people are trying to get across to you. If you want to build your engine up, don't you think it would be better to ASK others here what they did and what power they got rather than making statements like: "Just a cam change will get you to 200hp."?
| quote | | Originally posted by 88_Fiero_2M4: Why do I wish to stick with the duke.... cause I see most of you swapping engines and who is going to stick with the oringal motor that came with the car? why swap to another engine. I have heard how much of a headack that is.
I also saw someone point out using lighter weight parts... that cuts down some what on the hp lose by getting rid of some of the resistance, allowing a engine to rev faster, thus making it so the engine dosnt loose much power.
Sure totaly it isnt going to be cheap but if it is what I want then it is worth it..... Isnt it. If I were just to give up on it, wouldnt that be just like giving into the others who say that the Fiero isnt worth having or fixing up? Funny when you get that same arguement from the Fiero Community itself.
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There is nothing wrong with wanting more power out of the stock engine and looking for ways to do it. The point is (which you seem to be missing) is you came here and made statements which were not factual or based on anything more than second hand info from people who are not familiar with the 2.5L. When called on your basis for the data, you then changed your view. Nobody ever said the Fiero wasn't worth fixing up, But let's get real here, You are not going to get 200hp out of a 20 year old designed engine with all the mods you originally listed. It has been tried and although they did gain power, but it was not a 102% increase. You seem to put more value of information from people who don't even know the strong/weak points of a 2.5L then the many members here who have experimented and actually tried specific mods and have documented data. [This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 01-23-2004).]
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