Actually, if you didn't notice, I stopped calling you a bigot a while ago, and started calling you an idiot. Obstinate is a good word to describe my devotion to tolerance.

But here's the thing; I'm very receptive to thoughtful, well-documented articles. Quite unlike the sensationalist drivel that you quote from various internet sources (which by the way, are totally unregulated: E.g, they can say whatever the hell they want), and a few laughable articles you post. That latest one? From Chuck Morse? Don't make me laugh; In his very first sentence, he lists Saddam Hussein as an Islamic Terrorist. You really WILL swallow anything if it's in writing and remotely reflects your own views.

I agree. The actions of those creeps speaks loud and clear. I don't think Christianity in any way promotes intolerance or hatred. I never did.

However, you claim that the terrorists justify their actions by what their prophet tells them. Ok, you made that claim; You back it up. Let's see the exact passage (and the whole passage, not a single line) that tells them that it is ok to butcher civilians that have not attacked you first. I dare you.

Hah! That reuter's image... Nazi Salute, huh? You have to be joking. I hate to break it to you, but a straight-arm salute isn't exactly specific or unique to 1940s Nazi soldiers. You'll notice that the pictures *I* posted had the subjects saluting to Nazis. It's all about context.

God, and that Chuck Morse article? Saddam has NEVER been a fundamentalist. In fact, the rest of the Arab world DESPISED him before the US started the attacks. Now they only tolerate him because he isn't American.

His government has ALWAYS separated church and state, except for where it convenienced him.

With that in mind, I didn't really feel the need to read the rest of the article. Like so much before, you have posted utter crap, and are selling it as gilded truffles.

Ho-ho! Another liberal crack. Aren't you an imaginative one. I'm wounded man. Seriously? I'm hurting. So tell me, do you still believe that the best way to save souls is to cleanse them with fire? That altar's getting a little dirty. But supposedly blood is the most effective cleansing agent. I can't think of any other reason for spreading hatred.

In fact, if you were a good christian, and it was true that Islam really was out to get you... Wouldn't it be your responsibility to fight them back with biblical quotes, and when they hit you turn your cheek?

Or do you only want to follow the guidelines that suit you?

Actually, In case you didn't know, Jesus lives in LA, and steals hubcaps for a living.

048.029
YUSUFALI: Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other. Thou wilt see them bow and prostrate themselves (in prayer), seeking Grace from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure. On their faces are their marks, (being) the traces of their prostration. This is their similitude in the Taurat; and their similitude in the Gospel is: like a seed which sends forth its blade, then makes it strong; it then becomes thick, and it stands on its own stem, (filling) the sowers with wonder and delight. As a result, it fills the Unbelievers with rage at them. Allah has promised those among them who believe and do righteous deeds forgiveness, and a great Reward.
PICKTHAL: Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves. Thou (O Muhammad) seest them bowing and falling prostrate (in worship), seeking bounty from Allah and (His) acceptance. The mark of them is on their foreheads from the traces of prostration. Such is their likeness in the Torah and their likeness in the Gospel - like as sown corn that sendeth forth its shoot and strengtheneth it and riseth firm upon its stalk, delighting the sowers - that He may enrage the disbelievers with (the sight of) them. Allah hath promised, unto such of them as believe and do good works, forgiveness and immense reward.
SHAKIR: Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and those with him are firm of heart against the unbelievers, compassionate among themselves; you will see them bowing down, prostrating themselves, seeking grace from Allah and pleasure; their marks are in their faces because of the effect of prostration; that is their description in the Taurat and their description in the Injeel; like as seed-produce that puts forth its sprout, then strengthens it, so it becomes stout and stands firmly on its stem, delighting the sowers that He may enrage the unbelievers on account of them; Allah has promised those among them who believe and do good, forgiveness and a great reward.

009.030
YUSUFALI: The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!
PICKTHAL: And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they!
SHAKIR: And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!

004.104
YUSUFALI: And slacken not in following up the enemy: If ye are suffering hardships, they are suffering similar hardships; but ye have Hope from Allah, while they have none. And Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom.
PICKTHAL: Relent not in pursuit of the enemy. If ye are suffering, lo! they suffer even as ye suffer and ye hope from Allah that for which they cannot hope. Allah is ever Knower, Wise.
SHAKIR: And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain, and you hope from Allah what they do not hope; and Allah is Knowing, Wise.

A lot of what you posted reads like what I hear from christians what with the "beware false idols", the "misguided souls" and so on.

"SHAKIR: O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination. " You say the same damned thing about those that don't believe in christianity. Unless y'all meant that hell was like a Holiday Inn without the indoor pool?

I love how arguing with christians goes.

A: I'm not sure how much faith I put in all this talk of gods and Allah and Mohammed.It strikes me as superstitous nonsense.

B: You believe in Jesus don't you?

A: Thats different.

B: How?

A Jesus is a god.

You can't have the conversation. I'm sure Allah feels just as real as God does to you. I'm sure there isn't a muslim around that says to himself when he prays," wow, I wish this felt more real".

Idiot.

"Very Moderate Translation."
Oh, stupid old me. I forgot that you can read arabic, and that you have seen first hand what the Qu'ran REALLY says

That said, thanks for the rational post.

quote Originally posted by Gridlock: OK, its written a little more "strongly" than the bible, but so what? No one said they should be the same. A lot of what you posted reads like what I hear from christians what with the "beware false idols", the "misguided souls" and so on. "SHAKIR: O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination. " You say the same damned thing about those that don't believe in christianity. Unless y'all meant that hell was like a Holiday Inn without the indoor pool? I love how arguing with christians goes. A: I'm not sure how much faith I put in all this talk of gods and Allah and Mohammed.It strikes me as superstitous nonsense. B: You believe in Jesus don't you? A: Thats different. B: How? A Jesus is a god. You can't have the conversation. I'm sure Allah feels just as real as God does to you. I'm sure there isn't a muslim around that says to himself when he prays," wow, I wish this felt more real". Think about it guys-you are kneeling at the foot of your bed talking to yourselves. I think the whole bunch of you religious people come off a little nutty. (Its a joke, calm down)

Oh-THAT makes them evil. Semantics. I understand now.

You know,

That book sounds interesting. Not quite as good as a good King novel but better than the christian bible from an excitement standpoint.

Anyhow, If the intent was to point out passages that say "kill them all and blow up their world trade centers" that was definitely a swing and a miss. Those passages generally do what the christian bible does--woe is the disbeliever and god will get medieval on their buttocks for not following the one true path to blah blah blah.

There's not a single sentence in any of those passages that say so (though there must be--every good novel--like the christian bible--has a little violence in it.)

I can quote far worse out of the torah but I assure you, there is no jewish al-qaeda. Sadly, however there is the ADL; to guard against people like you.

-Jeff

[4.88] What is the matter with you, then, that you have become two parties about the hypocrites, while Allah has made them return (to unbelief) for what they have earned? Do you wish to guide him whom Allah has caused to err? And whomsoever Allah causes to err, you shall by no means find a way for him.
[4.89] They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.
[4.90] Except those who reach a people between whom and you there is an alliance, or who come to you, their hearts shrinking from fighting you or fighting their own people; and if Allah had pleased, He would have given them power over you, so that they should have certainly fought you; therefore if they withdraw from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not given you a way against them.

There is your KILL!!!!!!!!!!