Foreclosures at record as household wealth falls (Page 11/19)
84Bill MAR 08, 10:40 AM

quote
Originally posted by aceman:

NO! They are not related. Once again, YOU'D LIKE TO THINK they're related, but they ARE NOT related.



Yes they are very much related... albeit second cousins but they are indeed related.

Energy costs are king of everything across the board.
More money spent on energy means less money to spend on other things like houses, cars, food, new Chinese made crap etc. Anytime you increase "a" cost factor like fuel it dramatically affects everything else in the economic spectrum.

Same with ARMs if you dramatically increase interest rates it affects nearly everything. Though the impact is not as much as energy can and does, it still has a cooling affect on the overall economy depending how many people are being effected by the sudden increase.

Energy effects nearly everyone except the morbidly wealthy but they can absorb more loss than the average person which buys more time to come up with a new strategy for money making... like short selling stocks.
aceman MAR 08, 10:47 AM

quote
Originally posted by 84Bill:


Yes they are very much related... albeit second cousins but they are indeed related.

Energy costs are king of everything across the board.
More money spent on energy means less money to spend on other things like houses, cars, food, new Chinese made crap etc. Anytime you increase "a" cost factor like fuel it dramatically affects everything else in the economic spectrum.

Same with ARMs if you dramatically increase interest rates it affects nearly everything. Though the impact is not as much as energy can and does, it still has a cooling affect on the overall economy depending how many people are being effected by the sudden increase.

Energy effects nearly everyone except the morbidly wealthy but they can absorb more loss than the average person which buys more time to come up with a new strategy for money making... like short selling stocks.



I can agree with you to an extent, Bill. Bill, they may even be first cousins.However, in Mr Bitter's mind, the mortgtage meltdown is DIRECTLY related to Joe Blow losing his job or John Doe lost his overinflated house because he's paying more for gas in his car. It isn't a direct relation whatsoever!
84fiero123 MAR 08, 10:51 AM
This sounds like the only ones you are blaming are those who took the loans out to me, but then I don’t have an education like you ace.


quote
Originally posted by aceman:
Mr Bitter,
Do you complain about a car dealership? They do the same damn things. People go out and get cars they really can't afford. Repos happen every day. We all look at the people that get their car repo-ed as idiots. Same thing with a house. Nothing is hidden in these mortgage contracts!



And a car, except for a very, very select number will never, ever increase in value.

No one ever says buy now they are only going to go up in value when you are buying a car.

They did all this time about buying a home.

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

84Bill MAR 08, 10:54 AM

quote
Originally posted by Red88FF:


This was a self fulfilling prophecy by design. Scare the hell out of everyone till they stop spending money and wallah!, couldn't happen any other way.

He also says the outlook is good. We did how many pages of this last time?



You seem to be thinking that people have money to spend... they don't and thats what this thread is about. The writing is on the wall and has been there for over a year now. Between energy and shelter costs people just dont have the money they once had to spend on cheap Chinese made junk which is a problem in and of itself. Then factor in other miscellaneous and "trivial" things like a declining dollar and you have a recipe for total collapse.

Typically throughout history, governments and policy makers have been very slow to react to the "concerns" of the people they serve. Thats where the term "tell the king the sky is falling" comes from. The king cares less about what his peons are saying until they request a meeting with his excellency... torches and pitchforks in hand. Then it suddenly becomes an issue that must be taken into consideration.

[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 03-08-2008).]

aceman MAR 08, 11:02 AM
Dillusional Mr Bitter,
Houses will ALWAYS increase in value. (Well, except mobile homes) Stop painting a little corner of the picture and you'd see that.

Everyone but you saw and understood the analogy I used between a car dealership and the home buying experience. That analogy just couldn't get a seat in your brain. Too much paranoia and broken seats inside the brain for that analogy to sit down.
84fiero123 MAR 08, 11:10 AM

quote
Originally posted by aceman:

Dillusional Mr Bitter,
Houses will ALWAYS increase in value. (Well, except mobile homes) Stop painting a little corner of the picture and you'd see that.

Everyone but you saw and understood the analogy I used between a car dealership and the home buying experience. That analogy just couldn't get a seat in your brain. Too much paranoia and broken seats inside the brain for that analogy to sit down.



Can you ever discuss anything with anyone that disagrees with you without trying to degrade them?

Is that beyond your educated level?

Did you or did you not make this statement?


quote
Originally posted by aceman:
Nothing is hidden in these mortgage contracts!



That right there is what I was trying to point out to that educated mind of yours.

That shows that you are saying the only ones at fault in this are those who took out those mortgages, not the bankers, not the realtor, no one but the people who bit into the proverbial apple to try and get their piece of the American Dream of owning a home.

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

Red88FF MAR 08, 11:13 AM

quote
Originally posted by 84Bill:


You seem to be thinking that people have money to spend... they don't and thats what this thread is about.



No, it is about "Foreclosures at record as household wealth falls"

The vast majority of people DO have money to spend and are doing fine.
84Bill MAR 08, 11:15 AM

quote
Originally posted by aceman:
I can agree with you to an extent, Bill. Bill, they may even be first cousins.However, in Mr Bitter's mind, the mortgtage meltdown is DIRECTLY related to Joe Blow losing his job or John Doe lost his overinflated house because he's paying more for gas in his car. It isn't a direct relation whatsoever!



They are all related.
When the economy cools, large business (particularly CEOs who like multi million dollar bonuses) who have stock holders are concerned about profit margins so they "scale back" on "frivolous" things and cheapen the labor pool. Why pay someone 13 per hour when you can pay them 10 to do the same job? Why pay someone health benefits when you dont have to? Thats where the unions come into play and force corps to maintain salaries.. even increase them during "lean periods" such as this.

All told it "cheapens" the labor pool to the point of starving the economy as a whole. By giving less money to the people there is less money in circulation which exacerbates the problem even more.

Large corporations with lots of cash can take their time. They can slash and burn the workforce without suffering catastrophic losses and even if they do lose a mint... they have enough cash to do it. The bigger the corporation the more it effects the overall economy.

Simply put the economy is nothing more than people spending money.
Take away more money (or force it to be concentrated on only a few necessities) by forcing the people to pay more in one or two areas which are necessities then not increase wages to keep up with "frivolous" spending on nonessential junk from China... you have a decline in the making. Eventually corporations will come around but it takes a very long time for them to "bite the bullet" and get off their mine mine mine more more more asses and give their peons some spending money so they can get it back later on.

Ever play Monopoly?

[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 03-08-2008).]

aceman MAR 08, 11:16 AM
OH JEEZUS! Good Day, Mr Bitter. You are so fuking dense!
Phranc MAR 08, 11:18 AM

quote
Originally posted by Red88FF:


No, it is about "Foreclosures at record as household wealth falls"

The vast majority of people DO have money to spend and are doing fine.



But that vast majority of people going on with their daily lives doing it the right way aren't sexy news stories.


What % of total home loans out there are AMR? What % of those are in forecloser? What % of total loans are in forecloser?

Those simple questions answered would but this in a true big picture perspective. But those numbers don't allow for the fear mongering.