My opinion entirely surrounds the use of "get a life" in context with the message. It would appear that you disregarded the time an effort I'm Back put into the reply to Ed(hering) and indicated that I'm Back was wasting his time. Now I wont agrue about I'm Back attempting to lead a horse to water and the horse refusing to drink, that's all to obvious. But to say that I'm Back needs to "get a life" when taking into consideration your post as a whole was very derogatory, smacks of an arrogance I have not seen before.... Maybe I was wrong about you or just never noticed it before, but thats cool it happens.

I just figured you could have used a little more tac and alot less arrogance, I disagree with the use of "get a life" because Ed (I'm Back) has one and I like what he has to share and I feel his LIFE experiences play a very big part of it. I don't always agree with him but he is one if not the best debater on this forum. He has a very unique style that is uncommon...

Perfect example of a similar situation involving ME questioning Ed's wherebouts.

You may notice the 180 turn I have made since this thread.. Things change and I change with them, right now I'm Back makes alot of sense to me BUT that may not always be the case in the future. Irregardless of my position, I still demonstrate a level of respect and always pay my dues. How about you?

"You spent two hours in the middle of the day from 1:28 pm to 3:28 pm on a beautiful Saturday, one day before a National Holiday, typing a ranting post on a chat site? "

First of all, it was immediately before I left for Vegas, so that time was largely boxed in if you know what I mean. Secondly, what's wrong with spending time the way I want? Maybe I'm nocturnal . Why focus your response on the my use of time rather than for substantive counter-arguments? Although your guess was right that I spent 2 hours right before my flight left, I could have typed it in the middle of the night and finished it at noon. Lastly, you are wrong, my flight left at 2:00, so I was out the door by 1:00, which means I spent from about 11:00 am to 1:00 pm.

"Did it occur to you that Ed has a life and might have been celebrating America's birthday with friends and family this weekend?"

I was celebrating the 4th of July with family; I was in Vegas with my GF. As for America's birthday, America, both North America and South America have been here for longer than July 4, 1776, so I dismiss that remark based upon blind patriotism. Is the birthday of the United States really July 4, 1776? We were still colonial then, so how could it be? It's a little semantic to refer to the birth of an ideology based upon the act of stealing a chunk of land and earmarking it with a day of celebration as a birthday.

Why are you so concerned with the way I spend my days off? Or for that matter, if I spend them typing, reading or vacationing? Does that somehow support your Ad Hominem? Or is that the entirety of your Ad Hominem?

"Get a life."

I have a very (too) full life. I went to Vegas and had fun. I won't lie as you did and claim I won 33k dollars, but I had fun. I went light and bet about 10 baseball games each day, played some craps and blackjack and had fun; how is that not having a life?

"Ed(I'm Back) is berating Ed(Hering) for not replying to his post immediately as if THAT should be some sort of priority in his life despite the fact that he is probably enjoying his vacation and not hanging around his computer. It's easy for small minded people with nothing better to do to belittle and berate someone behind their back...cowardly too."

Behind their back? This is a public board..... ?

“In any event, I want to see your "evidence" for THESE charges:”

No, no, you make reasonable replies to the list you demand I spend 2 hours researching and then I will expound on that list. Edhering, it was you or pat’s dad that told me not to let the door hit me where the good lord split me, in reference to leaving the country; this, ‘love America or leave it’, or, ‘God said it – I believe it – and that settles it’ mentality aren’t arguments but irrational and emotional rhetoric to place your stance but not support it. Ok, ok, get past the rhetoric that defines your position; we all know it, start actually supporting it with references that are objective or at least believable.

You called me out, show the consideration to reasonably answer my, not proof (proof is generally for red neck absolutists) but support for my assertions. Agree in part, disagree in whole, but using God as reference or your opinion as a reference, or especially citing the fact that you don’t care if another country doesn’t like the US is not an intelligent answer; it’s emotion rhetoric. Answer mine and I will go on to yours.

1.The Overtime Bill
- http://www.aflcio.org/yourjobeconomy/overtimepay/ns01222004.cfm?RenderForPrint=1
- The omnibus appropriations bill is a factual reference that includes the Overtime Bill. The Overtime Bill is designed to unilaterally allow employers to relegate employees to salary status, require unlimited working hours without having to pay overtime wages.
2.A worthless/fruitless war that will net over 1k American deaths before the elction
- This is opinion. Some people still have the opinion that Viet Nam was a positive action too, so that relegates this issue to opinion. As for the 1k deaths, I think that is believable, although speculation. At approximately 850 deaths, 1k is believable.
3. Record job losses
- To support this broad allegation, I will establish that Bush’s trade policies have been primarily responsible for the losses of millions of jobs.
- Steel tariffs http://global-trade-law.com/Article.Bush%20Trade%20Policy%20(WSJ%20Editorial%205.10.02).htm
- “When the Bush administration imposed steep tariffs on imported steel, it became clear that this is no longer true. In sheer economic terms, the steel tariff is not that big a deal. But it demonstrates an unprecedented contempt for international rules.”
- “The immediate threat is that other nations will strike back; the European Union has threatened retaliatory tariffs, and earlier this week Japan, Brazil, South Korea and China said they would follow suit. (Mr. Bush really has unified the world, at least on this issue.) But as a wise trade expert once told me, the big danger when the U.S. flouts the rules isn't retaliation, it's emulation: if we don't honor trade agreements, who will?”
- http://global-trade-law.com/Article.Farm%20Bill%20(NYT%206.15.02).htm
- “Javier Solana, Europe's foreign policy chief, declared in Madrid this week that the new American agriculture policy has created the "most profound" division between Europe and the United States, worse than disputes over steel tariffs, the Kyoto environmental treaty or the international criminal court.”
- I could go on, but you’ve already complained about length.
4.Record deficits
- http://ko.offroadpakistan.com/imgs/deficit_estimate_july03_gra.jpg
- And these don’t even include the war costs
5.Record stock market drops (although it appears they may recover
enough for him to lose that title before the election)
- http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=^DJI&t=5y
- Are you going to blame 9/11? The market hit it’s largest low 1 year after 9/11. Has any president left the market lower than when he entered office? Maybe Hoover. It seems Hoover has become more and more of an issue lately now that Bush is meeting/exceeding his great measures.
6. Revoked rules that reduced the acceptable levels of arsenic in drinking
water.
- “Bush withdraws new arsenic-in-drinking-water standard
March 20, 2001: The Bush administration announced it would withdraw a new standard for arsenic in drinking water, choosing the interests of the mining industry and some small water suppliers over protecting the health of millions of Americans. EPA's final arsenic standard of 10 parts per billion (ppb) would have lowered allowable levels of arsenic in tap water from the current standard of 50 ppb, an outdated standard established in 1942. The 10 ppb standard was the result of more than a decade of public hearings, scientific reviews, and planning with health experts and industry representatives. A few years ago, the World Health Organization and the European Union implemented a 10 ppb standard. It would cost 90 percent of Americans living in areas with high levels of arsenic less than $3 per month to clean up the contaminant in their water supplies.”
- http://www.nrdc.org/bushrecord/water_drinking.asp
7.Killed the Ergonomics Bill
- http://www.cfo.com:8080/article/1,5309,2212,00.html
- The Senate passed the killing of it and the Bushy gladly signed it instead of vetoing it.
8. Cut the budget of the Environmental Protection Agency by $500 million.

I guess it's so much easier than actually addressing the point. Oh well, thx for noticing...

"You may notice the 180 turn I have made since this thread.. Things change and I change with them, right now I'm Back makes alot of sense to me BUT that may not always be the case in the future. Irregardless of my position, I still demonstrate a level of respect and always pay my dues. How about you?"

Seriously! We used to abuse each other....glad we can understand each other now. You have definately had the largest paradigm shift of anyone on the forum. Not to say that's right or wrong with your direction, just that you are able to shift with your personal position/politics rather than find a party to follow and agree with everything they've done. Of course my opinion is that I like your politics now, but as you say you are subject to change. Funny thing is that most people are susceptible to change, most don't admit it.

That was more of a rhetorical question .