Levi's sports white knots in support of gay marriage (Page 10/31)
Carver1 MAY 30, 04:17 PM

quote
Originally posted by Phranc:


No a man named Jesus was killed. And he wasn't the only "prophet" making such claims at the time.



Can you argue the fact that He was risen from the dead? There were hundreds, if not thousands of witnesses.
Boondawg MAY 30, 05:03 PM

quote
Originally posted by Carver1:

Jesus and God are the same. Jesus is God in human form.



Negitive.
Jesus wasn't even privy to the complete mind of God.
There were many things about God he did not understand.
If it was as you say, Jesus would have known everything God knew.
He did not.
Many things were unknown to him.
That's no God.

God's representive, maybe.

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 05-30-2009).]

Carver1 MAY 30, 05:10 PM

quote
Originally posted by Boondawg:


Negitive.
Jesus wasn't even privy to the complete mind of God.
There were many things about God he did not understand.
If it was as you say, Jesus would have known everything God knew.
He did not.
Many things were unknown to him.
That's no God.

God's representive, maybe.




Do you have a valid source for this claim?
I will say this about this thread. At least everyone is listening and responding instead of the hatred that usually pops up here.
Slayre MAY 30, 05:11 PM

quote
Originally posted by Phranc:


No a man named Jesus was killed. And he wasn't the only "prophet" making such claims at the time.



Prove it. Not with words. Yep their were alot of prophets doining Gods work back then.
avengador1 MAY 30, 05:12 PM

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Can you name any other person to rise from the dead?



Raises hand. The answer is Lazarus by one of Jesus' miracles.


quote
John 11:1-44 (New International Version)

John 11
The Death of Lazarus
1Now a man named Lazarus was sick. He was from Bethany, the village of Mary and her sister Martha. 2This Mary, whose brother Lazarus now lay sick, was the same one who poured perfume on the Lord and wiped his feet with her hair. 3So the sisters sent word to Jesus, "Lord, the one you love is sick."
4When he heard this, Jesus said, "This sickness will not end in death. No, it is for God's glory so that God's Son may be glorified through it." 5Jesus loved Martha and her sister and Lazarus. 6Yet when he heard that Lazarus was sick, he stayed where he was two more days.

7Then he said to his disciples, "Let us go back to Judea."

8"But Rabbi," they said, "a short while ago the Jews tried to stone you, and yet you are going back there?"

9Jesus answered, "Are there not twelve hours of daylight? A man who walks by day will not stumble, for he sees by this world's light. 10It is when he walks by night that he stumbles, for he has no light."

11After he had said this, he went on to tell them, "Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going there to wake him up."

12His disciples replied, "Lord, if he sleeps, he will get better." 13Jesus had been speaking of his death, but his disciples thought he meant natural sleep.

14So then he told them plainly, "Lazarus is dead, 15and for your sake I am glad I was not there, so that you may believe. But let us go to him."

16Then Thomas (called Didymus) said to the rest of the disciples, "Let us also go, that we may die with him."

Jesus Comforts the Sisters
17On his arrival, Jesus found that Lazarus had already been in the tomb for four days. 18Bethany was less than two miles[a] from Jerusalem, 19and many Jews had come to Martha and Mary to comfort them in the loss of their brother. 20When Martha heard that Jesus was coming, she went out to meet him, but Mary stayed at home.
21"Lord," Martha said to Jesus, "if you had been here, my brother would not have died. 22But I know that even now God will give you whatever you ask."

23Jesus said to her, "Your brother will rise again."

24Martha answered, "I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day."

25Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; 26and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?"

27"Yes, Lord," she told him, "I believe that you are the Christ,[b] the Son of God, who was to come into the world."

28And after she had said this, she went back and called her sister Mary aside. "The Teacher is here," she said, "and is asking for you." 29When Mary heard this, she got up quickly and went to him. 30Now Jesus had not yet entered the village, but was still at the place where Martha had met him. 31When the Jews who had been with Mary in the house, comforting her, noticed how quickly she got up and went out, they followed her, supposing she was going to the tomb to mourn there.

32When Mary reached the place where Jesus was and saw him, she fell at his feet and said, "Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died."

33When Jesus saw her weeping, and the Jews who had come along with her also weeping, he was deeply moved in spirit and troubled. 34"Where have you laid him?" he asked.
"Come and see, Lord," they replied.

35Jesus wept.

36Then the Jews said, "See how he loved him!"

37But some of them said, "Could not he who opened the eyes of the blind man have kept this man from dying?"

Jesus Raises Lazarus From the Dead
38Jesus, once more deeply moved, came to the tomb. It was a cave with a stone laid across the entrance. 39"Take away the stone," he said.
"But, Lord," said Martha, the sister of the dead man, "by this time there is a bad odor, for he has been there four days."
40Then Jesus said, "Did I not tell you that if you believed, you would see the glory of God?"

41So they took away the stone. Then Jesus looked up and said, "Father, I thank you that you have heard me. 42I knew that you always hear me, but I said this for the benefit of the people standing here, that they may believe that you sent me."

43When he had said this, Jesus called in a loud voice, "Lazarus, come out!" 44The dead man came out, his hands and feet wrapped with strips of linen, and a cloth around his face.
Jesus said to them, "Take off the grave clothes and let him go."



Boonie, Jesus was a man. He had to be in order to die for our sins. He resurrected because he is the son of God. All true believers will be resurrected when the rapture occurs and Jesus returns.

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 05-30-2009).]

Slayre MAY 30, 05:47 PM

quote
Originally posted by Phranc:


There is no proff and the verse is a great cop out. It's no different then holding out an empty hand telling you I hold a giant diamond then when you tell me there is nothing there I retort that you don't see it because you don't want to. I'm a confirmed catholic and was an alter server for over a decade.I have read the bible. A few times. Including the books that were left out and the gospels that were left out. I read the bible with an open mind and that's why I can see it for the BS that it is. Its great for telling fables and that's about it. I've also studied the history of christianity. So you guessed wrong.



Christianity is faith based. So If God told me there was a giant diamond in his hand that I could not see, I would believe him. thats how faith works. God works on his time not ours. He will reveal the diamond to me when he knows Im ready for it. Kinda like if your 7 year old came up to you and asked for a z06 vette. Would you buy it for him ? ( if you could afford one) of course not. You would wait until he was ready for it, right?
madcurl MAY 30, 05:49 PM

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Originally posted by fierobear:


OK, you have a point about slavery. Perhaps there ISN'T an absolute morality, but that would apply to human morality as well.



Actually, Phranc has no valid points with the scriptures. The fact that so-called Christians condoning slavery had more to do with racial hatred, their lack of following biblical scriptures, and advancement in society. Easily performed if you keep the masses illiterate by condemning anyone who dared to translate the scriptures or question their authority and easily enforced if you’ve blessed the King/Queen that’s in power (after all you control the masses).

Thus both dirty hands are easily washed by their destruction is seen throughout the world where kings have conquered other countries with little or no raised eyebrow during these crusades. After all, if a conquered society was deemed “barbaric” or appear to be uncivilized--- their devious actions justify the means. They’re apostatizing!
Carver1 MAY 30, 06:06 PM

quote
Originally posted by avengador1:
Raises hand. The answer is Lazarus by one of Jesus' miracles.

Boonie, Jesus was a man. He had to be in order to die for our sins. He resurrected because he is the son of God. All true believers will be resurrected when the rapture occurs and Jesus returns.




Bingo! JESUS raised Lazarus from the dead.

Here is the hardest part about Faith. There were people that were living at the time of Jesus. Even when they saw the miracles, some didn't believe. Talk about hard headed! For modern man to have Faith at all is a miracle. Everything we believe in happened two thousand years ago! It's not like we are seeing it first hand.
When Jesus returns EVERY HEAD WILL BOW. There is no where to hide. You can be defiant now, but you will repent. God promises that.
He WILL show everyone that He is alive and is the Almighty. The sound of His voice alone can bring down mountains. There are going to be many happy people when that day comes. For the rest, it will be the worst feeling you can imagine. Condemned to eternity separated from God's love.
It is a choice. He is not mean or uncaring. He offers eternal happiness to EVERYONE!
All you have to do is let Him enter your heart. It's that easy. No catch. No test to pass.
You think you have to "give up" all your ways of life by getting saved?
You will GLADLY do so if Jesus is truly in your heart.
You will not be perfect. You won't have everything go your way from then on.
It is difficult, but you have an understanding of the reasons behind it.

Just the few things I have witnessed in my life are amazing. There is no way it could be anything other than the power of God.
Prayers are very powerful.
Gecko MAY 30, 06:54 PM

quote
Originally posted by Carver1:


Can you argue the fact that He was risen from the dead? There were hundreds, if not thousands of witnesses.



Maybe Elvis is god? There were probably more witnesses who have seen Elvis after he died.

What about UFO's. Probably many many more witnesses to those as well.

Just because a lot of people "see something" and others go and write about it, doesn't make it true. It might all be a bit more believable if it wasn't edited so much.

Was there always a person walking behind the rest with a pen/tablet writing all this stuff down? or was it written later on, after being told by various people? I am guessing the latter. So try out that little experiment where you tell someone something, they tell another etc......and then see the difference in the story by the time it gets through 10 people.

I heard with all the new things being found out, they are re-writing it again too, I think it's due to come out in 2012.
avengador1 MAY 30, 08:30 PM

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Mark 16
The Resurrection
1When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so that they might go to anoint Jesus' body. 2Very early on the first day of the week, just after sunrise, they were on their way to the tomb 3and they asked each other, "Who will roll the stone away from the entrance of the tomb?"
4But when they looked up, they saw that the stone, which was very large, had been rolled away. 5As they entered the tomb, they saw a young man dressed in a white robe sitting on the right side, and they were alarmed.

6"Don't be alarmed," he said. "You are looking for Jesus the Nazarene, who was crucified. He has risen! He is not here. See the place where they laid him. 7But go, tell his disciples and Peter, 'He is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see him, just as he told you.' "

8Trembling and bewildered, the women went out and fled from the tomb. They said nothing to anyone, because they were afraid.

((The most reliable early manuscripts and other ancient witnesses do not have Mark 16:9-20.))
9When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had driven seven demons. 10She went and told those who had been with him and who were mourning and weeping. 11When they heard that Jesus was alive and that she had seen him, they did not believe it.
12Afterward Jesus appeared in a different form to two of them while they were walking in the country. 13These returned and reported it to the rest; but they did not believe them either.

14Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen.

15He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."

19After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God. 20Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and confirmed his word by the signs that accompanied it.




quote
John 20:26-29 (New International Version)

26A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 27Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."

28Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

29Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."





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Acts 4 (New International Version)

Acts 4
Peter and John Before the Sanhedrin
1The priests and the captain of the temple guard and the Sadducees came up to Peter and John while they were speaking to the people. 2They were greatly disturbed because the apostles were teaching the people and proclaiming in Jesus the resurrection of the dead. 3They seized Peter and John, and because it was evening, they put them in jail until the next day. 4But many who heard the message believed, and the number of men grew to about five thousand.
5The next day the rulers, elders and teachers of the law met in Jerusalem. 6Annas the high priest was there, and so were Caiaphas, John, Alexander and the other men of the high priest's family. 7They had Peter and John brought before them and began to question them: "By what power or what name did you do this?"

8Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them: "Rulers and elders of the people! 9If we are being called to account today for an act of kindness shown to a cripple and are asked how he was healed, 10then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed. 11He is
" 'the stone you builders rejected,
which has become the capstone.[a]'[b] 12Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."

13When they saw the courage of Peter and John and realized that they were unschooled, ordinary men, they were astonished and they took note that these men had been with Jesus. 14But since they could see the man who had been healed standing there with them, there was nothing they could say. 15So they ordered them to withdraw from the Sanhedrin and then conferred together. 16"What are we going to do with these men?" they asked. "Everybody living in Jerusalem knows they have done an outstanding miracle, and we cannot deny it. 17But to stop this thing from spreading any further among the people, we must warn these men to speak no longer to anyone in this name."

18Then they called them in again and commanded them not to speak or teach at all in the name of Jesus. 19But Peter and John replied, "Judge for yourselves whether it is right in God's sight to obey you rather than God. 20For we cannot help speaking about what we have seen and heard."

21After further threats they let them go. They could not decide how to punish them, because all the people were praising God for what had happened. 22For the man who was miraculously healed was over forty years old.

The Believers' Prayer
23On their release, Peter and John went back to their own people and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said to them. 24When they heard this, they raised their voices together in prayer to God. "Sovereign Lord," they said, "you made the heaven and the earth and the sea, and everything in them. 25You spoke by the Holy Spirit through the mouth of your servant, our father David:
" 'Why do the nations rage
and the peoples plot in vain?
26The kings of the earth take their stand
and the rulers gather together
against the Lord
and against his Anointed One.[c]'[d] 27Indeed Herod and Pontius Pilate met together with the Gentiles and the people[e] of Israel in this city to conspire against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed. 28They did what your power and will had decided beforehand should happen. 29Now, Lord, consider their threats and enable your servants to speak your word with great boldness. 30Stretch out your hand to heal and perform miraculous signs and wonders through the name of your holy servant Jesus."
31After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly.

The Believers Share Their Possessions
32All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they had. 33With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and much grace was upon them all. 34There were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned lands or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales 35and put it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to anyone as he had need.
36Joseph, a Levite from Cyprus, whom the apostles called Barnabas (which means Son of Encouragement), 37sold a field he owned and brought the money and put it at the apostles' feet.