The economy, is it good or bad. (Page 10/181)
heybjorn AUG 04, 03:55 PM
I'm not trying to hijack the thread here, but I have a question: What are the long term prospects for a heavily industrialized economy? The United States was once the most capable producer of steel, automobiles, and airplanes in the world. This was largely because our industrial base was not destroyed in WW 2. With the rise of Japan as an industrial power beginning in the ' 60s, and now China and India, to some extent, beginning to displace Japan as producers of hard goods, what kind of future does producing things have here in the US? We are not going to live like the Chinese and we don't have sense of responsibility to the corporation that once characterized
Japan. We no longer take a long view of anything here. We ask, " Not five year or ten year, but what are a company's quarterly profits?" As the rest of the world becomes industrialized and our production costs will not allow us to compete with people who will work for $5.00 a week or less, what do we do for an economic base? We can't stop the rest of the world from competing with us.

Japanese cars were once laughed off as junk. Now Hondas are the most reliable cars you can buy. The Chinese will eventually get to that point. So, what do we do? We aren't going back to the days when we built everything within our borders.
Uaana AUG 04, 04:54 PM
heybe

but don't forget what has replaced that heavy industry. We're the most tech advanced society on the planet.
We've moved from farm to industry to information/tech.

AMD/Intel are both US companies

The big 3.. well they have tried to pull their head out of their ass.. but they have 80yrs of Union labor and old school thinking to overcome.

Case in point.. they can't think/evolve.
The Ford Taurus was launched in 1986.. the platform remained unchanged // barring cosmetic changes for 20 years
Look at the Camry launched in 80 has evolved and updated almost every 2 yrs and had a higher build quality..
(hmm something 123 won't agree with) and built in the states after 94
84fiero123 AUG 04, 06:36 PM

quote
Originally posted by Uaana:

heybe

but don't forget what has replaced that heavy industry. We're the most tech advanced society on the planet.
We've moved from farm to industry to information/tech.

AMD/Intel are both US companies

The big 3.. well they have tried to pull their head out of their ass.. but they have 80yrs of Union labor and old school thinking to overcome.

Case in point.. they can't think/evolve.
The Ford Taurus was launched in 1986.. the platform remained unchanged // barring cosmetic changes for 20 years
Look at the Camry launched in 80 has evolved and updated almost every 2 yrs and had a higher build quality..
(hmm something 123 won't agree with) and built in the states after 94




I have said all along that the whole problem with the big 3 is management, management made the decisions about when to build or redesign the models.

I have never said anything different.

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

aceman AUG 04, 07:04 PM

quote
Originally posted by 84fiero123:


I have said all along that the whole problem with the big 3 is management, management made the decisions about when to build or redesign the models.

I have never said anything different.




You missed the part of Uanna describing the Union Labor problem. Kinda puts a bit of a weight on your research and development department's leg (less dollars) when your trying to constantly deal with blood sucking UAW Union Monkeys hampering your progress.
BTW, on track with this thread......

My opinion is that the economy is doing just fine. Low unemployment and inflation. Good interest rates for a mortgage. Housing market sucks, but there's a bigtime correction going on in the market. My stocks are doing well. What's not to like about the economy?

[This message has been edited by aceman (edited 08-04-2007).]

88GT5.0KILLER AUG 04, 08:06 PM

quote
Originally posted by aceman:

What's not to like about the economy?




5.00 for a gallon of milk
3.00 for a gallon of gas
2.00 for a loaf of bread

Yeah, the economy is doing great.

------------------
Handing out negs for my opinion? The price you pay for not being one of the sheeple.

aceman AUG 04, 08:11 PM

quote
Originally posted by 88GT5.0KILLER:


5.00 for a gallon of milk
3.00 for a gallon of gas
2.00 for a loaf of bread

Yeah, the economy is doing great.





Hmmmm,

It's $3/gallon for milk here It's hovered around that price for years
It's $2.70/gallon for gas here. Still lower than it was in the 70s when you factor in inflation.
It's $1 for bread here.

Yeah, the economy is doing great.

.
BTW, bad examples to put forth to someone in the farming area. Milk has gone up about 50 cents in the past few months. Farmers are getting a better price for their dairy products. That may just reduce the dairy subsidies that the federal government pays them for their dairy products. Gas prices are skyrocketting. Corn prices are too. Farmers are taking their CRP acres out of CRP and planting corn. That'll reduce the CRP subsidies the federal government is paying farmers to NOT plant crops. Bread hasn't changed that much in price over the past 15 years.

[This message has been edited by aceman (edited 08-04-2007).]

84fiero123 AUG 04, 08:31 PM

quote
Originally posted by aceman:


You missed the part of Uanna describing the Union Labor problem. Kinda puts a bit of a weight on your research and development department's leg (less dollars) when your trying to constantly deal with blood sucking UAW Union Monkeys hampering your progress.
BTW, on track with this thread......

My opinion is that the economy is doing just fine. Low unemployment and inflation. Good interest rates for a mortgage. Housing market sucks, but there's a bigtime correction going on in the market. My stocks are doing well. What's not to like about the economy?



So it is the unions fault the management are morons?

Keep blaming the unions. They are not the reason the auto companies are going down the tubes, it is managements inability to change from trucks to cars, or more fuel efficient vehicles period.

When they were selling trucks hand over fist they were making huge profits with union labor.

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

84Bill AUG 04, 08:58 PM

quote
Originally posted by Uaana:

heybe

but don't forget what has replaced that heavy industry. We're the most tech advanced society on the planet.
We've moved from farm to industry to information/tech.

AMD/Intel are both US companies

The big 3.. well they have tried to pull their head out of their ass.. but they have 80yrs of Union labor and old school thinking to overcome.

Case in point.. they can't think/evolve.
The Ford Taurus was launched in 1986.. the platform remained unchanged // barring cosmetic changes for 20 years
Look at the Camry launched in 80 has evolved and updated almost every 2 yrs and had a higher build quality..
(hmm something 123 won't agree with) and built in the states after 94




What does the union have to do with development of cars? You tell the monkey to stop bolting on this panel and bolt this one on instead.

The problem is with upper management. They would rather fly the company jet to vagas for the week to burn off some of that 3000 dollars per hr. than spend it on developing a good solid car. America has the knowledge, it has the will, it has the expertise but it just doesnt have THE MONEY and it had ZERO to do with wages or unionized workers... It does if you want to use the union as an easily bastardized scapegoat.. then it make ssense.

 
quote

December 20, 2005
Toyota -- now nipping at the heels of the world's largest auto company, GM -- built one of its first U.S. plants in Kentucky, where it started producing cars in 1988. Renee Brown works assembling the Camry -- the nation's best-selling car. She puts in seat belts and cup holders at Toyota's plant in Kentucky horse country. Brown grew up in Beattyville, a tiny, struggling town in the state's Appalachian coalfields. The town doesn't have many good jobs today. Brown previously worked as an assistant manager at Dairy Queen, where she made $20,000 annually. Six years ago, she got a job at Toyota.

Now, Brown makes $70,000 a year -- more than twice the average manufacturing wage in the area.

Leonard Habermehl is a skilled repairman and makes up to $85,000 per year. When he came to Toyota in 1990, he didn't see why he needed a union. But after years of service in which he says he has seen people injured and forced out of their jobs, he now believes the plant should unionize.

[quote]


So brown is a non union workermaking the same wage as a unionized worker.
aceman AUG 04, 09:03 PM
Linked source, please, Bill?
aceman AUG 04, 09:07 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by 84fiero123:

So it is the unions fault the management are morons?

Keep blaming the unions. They are not the reason the auto companies are going down the tubes, it is managements inability to change from trucks to cars, or more fuel efficient vehicles period.

When they were selling trucks hand over fist they were making huge profits with union labor.




Hmmmm, I seem to recall that the truck is where Ford and even GM have their worldwide stronghold yet. Toyota has been marketing the sh!t out of their trucks to knock GM and Ford out of that market. Toyota just can't get there yet.