Landscaper Under Fire for Refusing to Work for Gays (Page 10/65)
Nurb432 NOV 12, 09:30 AM
Personally i think hes a fool to turn away customers for such a reason, but its his business and as long as he isnt a govermnetal contractor its his right.
jstricker NOV 12, 09:32 AM
Bill,

The difference is, I'm not telling everyone they HAVE TO DO SOMETHING SOME WAY. Live your life. Do what you want. Leave me to do mine. If I don't want to associate/work for/hire gays, who are YOU to tell me "OH YES YOU WILL OR I WILL HAVE YOU ARRESTED AND THROWN INTO JAIL!"

That has been, and always will be, my point. In this case, it's not a legal matter from the standpoint of law (so far) but they are trying to accomplish the same thing through intimidation, when all the landscaper wanted to do was be left alone.

John Stricker

quote
Originally posted by 84Bill:


And you don't see your OPINION and YOUR VIEW to be intolorant?

I'm not the one who is intolorant because (insert reason here), you are. What are you afraid of Jonh? Gunna burn in hell, catch aids, get raped? Your intolorance makes as much sense as the salem witch trials and the spanish inquisition. It serves no purpose other than to divide, separate, discriminate... hate. Is that what America is to you? A cesspool of intolorance? What you want and screw the rest?
jstricker NOV 12, 09:37 AM
Bill,

You have no idea which side I'm on because you are incapable of listening to an opinion that does not match your own and a privately owned business is NOT a public entity. Period. They are just as much a PRIVATE entity as you are as an individual.

I love it when you always seem to know what everyone else thinks, feels, believes, when in reality you really don't have a clue.

John Stricker

quote
Originally posted by 84Bill:


Militants exist on both sides of the issue.

John Stricker is on one side and the gay pride is on the other. Meanwhile I'm in the middle wondering what the ****ing hell is going on around here.

Fact is a PUBLIC entity is not allowed to discriminate. END OF STORY.

The reason gays are militant is because they are being DISCRIMINATED against by a group of people who are INTOLORANT of their lifestyle..

If a "gay" guy tries to hit on me I wouldn't even know it because I'm not paranoid of speeking to other people.. simple as that. I don't go there and they know it so they leave me alone. I meet and know ALOT of people because I am TOLORANT and my best friends are that way too.
jstricker NOV 12, 10:17 AM
The more I read about this, the more this whole thing smells like a setup to me. This gay couple, or at least half of it, went fishing to be discriminated against and to have a "cause" to be publicized for. Let's review the facts:


quote


Landscaper Under Fire for Refusing to Work for Gays
By MONICA RHOR, AP

HOUSTON (Nov. 10) - A few short weeks ago, Garden Guy was just a mom-and-pop landscaping business that promoted itself as "making Houston beautiful since 1991" and promised to treat its customers with respect and honesty. Since then, though, the business has been vilified around the world as a bunch of bigots because its Christian conservative owners refused to do work for a gay couple. Michael Lord and Gary Lackey, a gay couple requesting bids for a landscaping job at their new house, received a polite - and, well, honest - e-mail from Sabrina Farber, a co-owner of Garden Guy: "I need to tell you that we cannot meet with you because we choose not to work for homosexuals."



So it begins. Mr. Lord says the following:


quote

Michael Lord, who is building a house in the Heights with his partner, told me he had found the company through an Internet search. He liked the "before and after" photos on the company Web site.

He said he didn't notice, at the bottom of one of the pages, under a photo of the Farbers and their four children, this:

"The God-ordained institution of marriage is under attack in courts across the nation, and your help is needed.

"Go to: www.nogaymarriage.com to take action."

Lord said he filled out a form on the Farbers' Web site and received a return e-mail expressing enthusiasm for the project. He called the company Wednesday morning to set up an appointment.

"Mrs. Farber kept referring to me and my wife," said Lord. "I told her it was actually my partner."



Right. You didn't notice it. Does being Gay make you stupid or incapable of reading? I don't think so. It's not hidden, either. Go take a look. There is a very obvious reference on the Home Page to their view on marriage. If you missed all this, then you, Mr. Lord, are a dullard of epic proportions.

But Mr. Lord didn't miss it. He had a phone conversation with Mrs. Farber where, at some point, it became apparent to her that his partner was not a wife, at least in the traditional sense of the word. So the landscape owners declined to even bid the job. (Why waste everyone's time?) They sent the following email:


quote

From: Garden Guy Inc
Date: October 18, 2006 9:08:36 AM CDT
To: [xxxxxx]@houston.rr.com
Subject: Cancel Appt -Garden Guy

Dear Mr. [X],

I am appreciative of your time on the phone today and glad you
contacted us. I need to tell you that we cannot meet with you because we choose not to
work for homosexuals.

Best of luck in finding someone else to fill your landscaping needs.

All my best,

Sabrina

Todd and Sabrina Farber
Owners, Garden Guy, Inc.

visit us at: Garden Guy, Inc

Member of the Association of Professional Landscape Designers

Creating beautiful landscaping for Houston homeowners since 1991!

Phone 281-208-4400
Fax 1+801-365-9353
email: sabrina@garden-guy.com
email: todd@garden-guy.com




The response to this email was swift and, IMO, brutal. Mr. Lord forwarded this to 200 people and told THEM to forward it on to many more. Notice a few things here? Like Phone numbers? Tell me, how would YOU feel if a private email was forwarded on to 200 people with instructions to keep forwarding it? Wouldn't that just be wonderful for you? Right.

One of the websites that published the email followed it with:


quote

"All my best"? Pretty cheery for a discriminatory sign-off, don't you think.? Anyway, do what you will with this information. Whatever it is, make sure it's creative.



So it's all the evil Christians? BS. Here's a more likely scenario.

1/2 of the Gay couple is on the internet looking for landscapers and comes across The Garden Guy.
He notices the Bible passage on the homepage and goes to the "About Us" page.
He sees the statement about gay marriage and the link and he gets mad and decides to press the issue
He sends in a contact form from the website.
He is called back and during the course of the conversation it becomes apparent that he is gay, which is just what he wanted
Shortly thereafter, the email is sent informing him they will not bid the job and states honestly why.
He now has what he wants, a cause, which he sends to 200 of his closest friends with instructions to tell everyone they can.

Mrs. Farber said it best:


quote

"It was just our intent to uphold our rights as small business owners to choose our clientele," she said. "All the hate, the threats of sodomizing my children, the threats of me being murdered, came out because of a very businesslike straightforward e-mail I sent. The crowd of tolerance and diversity is not so tolerant."




This is the EXACT same thing I've been saying on this forum for a year or more when the subject has come up. I don't care what you do. I don't care how or who you do it with. It's none of my business. But I DO HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE KEPT OUT OF IT!!

Those rights are being stripped and demonized more and more every day. The incredible thing is, it's people like Scott that believe in the Libertarian ideals that think I shouldn't have them in this case. It's people like 84Bill that is so adamant about his individual rights but I'm not allowed to have mine. I see it over and over and nearly ALWAYS from the same people that protest about violation of THEIR rights.

Cliff, you say this is just terrible. *I* say what's terrible is the day is rapidly coming that I am going to be forced to accept by law and threat of imprisonment a DEVIANT (that is, something that is far out of the norm) lifestyle as being normal.

Well, here's a newsflash for you guys. Deviate all you want, I really don't care. But don't expect me to support it, pay for it, or knowingly further it in any way because it's NOT going to happen with my help.

John Stricker
Toddster NOV 12, 10:33 AM
Clearly both sides are wrong here.

The Farbers are free to associate with whom they choose but to state that the reason you do not wish to associate with them is rude, insensitive, and spoiling for a fight. What If I went around saying that I would only work for Conservatives or people with advanced education because the thought of trying to talk to stupid people bothered me? These people waved a red flag in front of a bull and got gored.

The gay community however should be ashamed of the response and publically condemn it. Mr. Lackey had NO right to send the email to 200 "freinds". The point of being an adult is learning take the insensitivity of others in stride and get on with your life. Use it as a lesson to grow from...fine. But revenge is all this was and that sucks. Threatening children with sodomy, threatening murder, restraint of trade, and all other forms of malice is even MORE wrong than the original offence. It certainly does not create a great deal of sympathy towards homosexuals and only re-inforces uninformed stereotypes that gays are emotionally unstable and proned to violence when provoked (ala Frankenfurter). Way to set the cause back a hundred years boys.
fogglethorpe NOV 12, 10:39 AM
The owner of a business has a right to pick and choose with whom he will and will not do business....most of the time, he will do what is financially expedient unless (Like the Farbers) he is a stuffy idealogue on a crusade.

It is also within the rights of Mr. Lord to persuade others to boycott the landscaping business.

I say, let market forces be what they are, and keep it out of the courts.

I owned a business in NJ back in the 90s and had a gay couple as clients. They were very nice to me, gave me alot of business, and didn't make an issue out of their sexuality (and I didn't either). Their money was just as good as my other customers (in some cases, better....I never had to chase them down for payment).

I will add this...if a person was involved in criminal activity or something else unseemly I would, and have, refused to do business with them. I would politely decline, move on, and leave it at that.

------------------
Who is John Galt?

[This message has been edited by fogglethorpe (edited 11-12-2006).]

Wolfhound NOV 12, 10:43 AM

quote
Originally posted by Toddster:
The gay community however should be ashamed of the response and publically condemn it. Mr. Lackey had NO right to send the email to 200 "freinds". The point of being an adult is learning take the insensitivity of others in stride and get on with your life. Use it as a lesson to grow from...fine. But revenge is all this was and that sucks. Threatening children with sodomy, threatening murder, restraint of trade, and all other forms of malice is even MORE wrong than the original offence. .



Is this a conservative appology to the" Dixie Chicks" Todd? Are you capable of seeing the parallel?
edhering NOV 12, 10:53 AM

quote
Originally posted by jstricker:
Those rights are being stripped and demonized more and more every day. The incredible thing is, it's people like Scott that believe in the Libertarian ideals that think I shouldn't have them in this case. It's people like 84Bill that is so adamant about his individual rights but I'm not allowed to have mine. I see it over and over and nearly ALWAYS from the same people that protest about violation of THEIR rights.



The First Amendment to the US Constitution specifically guarantees the right to freedom of association. This means that if I want to associate with Fiero owners, I can. It also means that if I don't want to associate with Honda owners, it means I don't have to.

American jurisprudence proceeds on the theory that businesses are effectively the same as people. Therefore a business, theoretically, can refuse to associate (do business with) whomever it pleases.

The legal basis for anti-discrimination law proceeds from the theory that allowing businesses to refuse service based on race is detrimental to society at large. In this fashion it is considered a "constitutional" law even though it infringes on a right specifically protected by the First Amendment.

No such theory has been established for sexual practices. The reality is that at most 10% of the population is homosexual, and 10% is a stretch; 5% is more realistic. It is not clear that extending the "race discrimination" law to cover sexual habits would be equally beneficial; besides the fact that homosexuality is a miniscule fraction of the total population, it is also one of questionable social value for many reasons.

(Don't believe me? Think I'm a bigot? Do a little research. Find out how many pedophiles are homosexuals versus how many are straight, particularly in terms of percentage of parent population. Find out how much of the "gay lifestyle" revolves around promiscuous and frequently anonymous sex. HIV became an "epidemic" in the 1980s because of such practices.)

Although the law has been extended to cover "sexual preference" it is not pervasive and cannot be applied to every situation. Much is left up to local control.

I think John makes an excellent case, above, for a homosexual "sting" against the owners of that company. Homosexual activists don't like religion; they don't like being told by anyone that their lifestyle is destructive.

Ed
cliffw NOV 12, 11:15 AM

quote
Originally posted by edhering:
Although the law has been extended to cover "sexual preference" it is not pervasive and cannot be applied to every situation.


I believe you are wrong here. Sexual discrimination has only served to protect against gender discrimination.
84Bill NOV 12, 12:22 PM
John.. you are intolorant of gays... you discrimiante on the basis of sexual preference.. I don't like that about you and I have little tolorance for your warped justifications to hate another AMERICAN let alone another human being.. I personally fing your intolorance to be more disgusting than any gay act.

end of discussion....


quote
Originally posted by jstricker:
Bill,

The difference is, I'm not telling everyone they HAVE TO DO SOMETHING SOME WAY. John Stricker