I think we all need to cheer Archie up... (Page 10/20)
I'm Back JUL 19, 03:44 PM

quote
Originally posted by LZeitgeist:

Ah, edited your post, I see... I should have quoted the entire thing. I'll be sure to do that from now on.



As I staed, I misread the part about interchangeability and revised it - brother -

Formula88 JUL 19, 03:48 PM

quote
Originally posted by I'm Back:

If none of the parts are interchangeable, but the general intent of the kit has the same function of previous kits manuf by other people, then it is a redesign/reengineer.


Sorry, Ed, but that's wrong. If 2 people design something to do the same thing, but have no contact with one another and are unaware of each other, it may be 2 similar designs, but one is not a redesign of the other. A redesign, by definition is a revision of an existing design.

That's like saying the Ford GT is a redesigned Viper. The general intent of both products is the same, even though no parts interchange.

At this point, you're just arguing to argue. Just like your EdsB52 days.

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 07-19-2004).]

I'm Back JUL 19, 03:55 PM

quote
Originally posted by Formula88:
That's like saying the Ford GT is a redesigned Viper. The general intent of both products is the same, even though no parts interchange.


"Sorry, Ed, but that's wrong. If 2 people design something to do the same thing, but have no contact with one another and are unaware of each other, it may be 2 similar designs, but one is not a redesign of the other. A redesign, by definition is a revision of an existing design."

Valid to a point, especially if you are talking large assemblies like entire cars, but when you are talking about smaller specific devices I think the redesign defintion is more correct.

Also, Zumalt had his kit in existance before Archie, right? Well, if you want to state that Archie didn't learn from hsi kit then go ahead, especially since I recall reading writings from Archie stating he knew of Zumalt's kit and talked about the shortcommings of it.

Hmmmm, not going to comment about the contributions that Zumalt made, even if his kits sucked as the clones would likely state, and the only benefit was to establish what not to design. Colors are showing.

"At this point, you're just arguing to argue. Just like your EdsB52 days."

Bill, are you in there? These are the kinds of arguments I've grown accustomed to .

[This message has been edited by I'm Back (edited 07-19-2004).]

LZeitgeist JUL 19, 04:05 PM

quote
Originally posted by I'm Back:
Also, Zumalt had his kit in existance before Archie, right?

I don't know - that's what I've asked more than once. What was Zumalt doing in 1986 when Archie did his first Fiero V8 swap with a leftover Camaro engine? Granted, I didn't ask this question directly to you the first time, Ed, but it sounds like you'd have an answer to it...

At this point, the judge is going to berate me for badgering the witness...

[This message has been edited by LZeitgeist (edited 07-19-2004).]

JohnnyK JUL 19, 04:12 PM

quote
Originally posted by LZeitgeist:


I don't know - that's what I've asked more than once. What was Zumalt doing in 1986 when Archie did his first Fiero V8 swap with a leftover Camaro engine? Granted, I didn't ask this question directly to you the first time, Ed, but it sounds like you'd have an answer to it...

At this point, the judge is going to berate me for badgering the witness...



I believe Zumalt said he did his in 84-85.. I can't verify this of course, since I was a wee lad.. But it is my understand Zumalt did it first, and hten Archie had one and noticed the 'shortcomings', so did a redesign...

LZeitgeist JUL 19, 04:19 PM

quote
Originally posted by JohnnyK:
I believe Zumalt said he did his in 84-85.. I can't verify this of course, since I was a wee lad.. But it is my understand Zumalt did it first, and hten Archie had one and noticed the 'shortcomings', so did a redesign...

Excerpted from Archie's website ( www.v8archie.com ):

quote
His story starts out back in 1982 when Pontiac introduced the finalized Fiero design to the public. Right off the bat, he liked this car. Mid-engine, two seater, space frame, 4-wheel disc brakes, rack & pinion steering, non-structural body panels, and other unique features caught his eye. He felt that this was going to be the "55 Chevy" of the next generation. The only thing he didn't like about the design was the 4 cylinder engine. But he knew there was rumors of a power upgrade targeted for next year.

The story of the first V-8 Fiero starts in 1985. Every since the original announcement of the Fiero he was excited about the car and couldn’t resist talking about the car with anyone who would hold still. Archie has a, non-car-guy, brother that had heard so much about the Fiero that he bought an ‘85 GT and a few months later he bought an ‘86 SE. Every time his brother (with wife and kids) would come to visit they would drive both Fieros. During these visits, and while the families were visiting inside, Archie would just pour over these 2 cars studying each and every feature. These cars became the inspiration for the first V-8 Fiero. Of course Archie wanted a Fiero, he couldn’t afford a new "Loaded" Fiero and wouldn’t have a use for a lesser Fiero. Finally, without the knowledge of his brother, Archie and his wife decided that he should buy a used ‘84 Fiero and swap an extra V-8 engine from one of his Camaros into it. The first swap took 5 months to complete and was completed in April 1986. The motor that was being transplanted into the ‘84 was a 327 out of a 1967 Camaro. After a lot of hard work, it was in and ran like a charm.


No mention of a Zumalt kit.

EDIT - typo

[This message has been edited by LZeitgeist (edited 07-19-2004).]

I'm Back JUL 19, 04:19 PM

quote
Originally posted by LZeitgeist:



"I don't know - that's what I've asked more than once. What was Zumalt doing in 1986 when Archie did his first Fiero V8 swap with a leftover Camaro engine? Granted, I didn't ask this question directly to you the first time, Ed, but it sounds like you'd have an answer to it..."

I'm certainly no expert in the field, but I understand that Zumalt's were in existance, and that Archie wanted to improve upon them.

"At this point, the judge is going to berate me for badgering the witness..."

Sustained

LZeitgeist JUL 19, 04:20 PM

quote
Originally posted by I'm Back:
"At this point, the judge is going to berate me for badgering the witness..."
Sustained

::chuckle::

Mastermind JUL 19, 07:57 PM

quote
Originally posted by jstricker:

I hate to be the one to break it to you Mastermind, but you're not perceived as a threat to Archie at all. You don't sell kits, you don't even have yours running.

John Stricker

PS: I don't think you want me to tell you what I perceive you as.



I'm responding only to make it clear that my 4.9 is running and has ran everyday since Ed Parks installed it. John, I'm not expecting a response from you. I'm only stating this because I did not address it earlier in the thread and I want everyone to be clear on that fact.

[This message has been edited by Mastermind (edited 07-19-2004).]

Formula88 JUL 19, 09:08 PM

quote
Originally posted by I'm Back:

Valid to a point, especially if you are talking large assemblies like entire cars, but when you are talking about smaller specific devices I think the redesign defintion is more correct.


Sorry, Ed, but you're wrong. Redesign means starting with an existing design and changing it. The size of the design has nothing to do with it. If you designed a bucket, and Mastermind designed a bucket, and the two of you didn't know each other, how could one be a redesign of the other?


quote
Originally posted by I'm Back:

Also, Zumalt had his kit in existance before Archie, right? Well, if you want to state that Archie didn't learn from hsi kit then go ahead, especially since I recall reading writings from Archie stating he knew of Zumalt's kit and talked about the shortcommings of it.

Hmmmm, not going to comment about the contributions that Zumalt made, even if his kits sucked as the clones would likely state, and the only benefit was to establish what not to design. Colors are showing.


You got tired of waiting for a reply WHILE YOU WERE TYPING THAT? Hmmm, Can't really reply until after you've posted, now can I?

Was Archie working on a V8 before Zumalt? I don't know, and no one has shown any evidence one way or another. You said you think Z was first, but if I think the moon is made of cheese that doesn't make it so.

But I think you're getting side-tracked. Re-design or no, you still troll after Archie, then play the victim and cry that he's coming after you. So you'll understand if I don't put a lot of credibility into your opinion.